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I also don't buy the whole premise of US government - bad, EU governments - good. When push comes to shove, governments everywhere will have no qualms about in

by Toshio 13y ago

I also don't buy the whole premise of US government - bad, EU governments - good. When push comes to shove, governments everywhere will have no qualms about invading people's privacies en masse. Human nature is the same everywhere. Power corrupts everywhere.

ff10 13y ago
Switzerland is a non-EU country. Switzerland has a long tradition of civil liberties, rights and participation. This results in regular legally binding referendums on the one side and tax evasions from civilians of other countries on the other.
- simgidacav 13y ago
  The fact that they have been "good guys" until now doesn't say anything about the fact that they will be "good guys" forever.
  - ff10 13y ago
    This applies to good guys all over the world since ever. Btw, I did not state anywhere that I consider Switzerland as being the good guys. Applying qualities of character to a state is misleading IMHO.
- VexXtreme 13y ago
  Like the time when Swiss banks conveniently decided to forget their tradition of "civil liberties and rights" and en masse turned over their clients confidential personal information and financial records to the US authorities? They've already acted like America's little bitch once, what makes you think they're not going to do the same again?
- toyg 13y ago
  Switzerland recently increased cooperation efforts with EU countries on many, many issues. The geopolitical reality is that progressive (if glacially slow) solidification of the EU block is making it a politically as well as physically landlocked country. Such nations have clear limits in their independence in practice; to mention just one, any cable originating in Switzerland will inevitably have to pass through a EU country - worse, through a EU border, which allows for all sorts of shenanigans like the 2009 Swedish interception law.
deleted 13y ago
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simgidacav 13y ago
I think there's an analogous between power and hardware/software failure. When power is centralized corruption effects are worse, exactly like when software is centralized failure effects are worse. Distribution is the answer. Distribute power, in a way in which it cannot be exploited. I'm not an expert in politics, but I guess that communism had this kind of principle, but it totally failed in implementing it.

by Toshio 13y ago

ff10 13y ago

Switzerland is a non-EU country. Switzerland has a long tradition of civil liberties, rights and participation. This results in regular legally binding referendums on the one side and tax evasions from civilians of other countries on the other.

simgidacav 13y ago
The fact that they have been "good guys" until now doesn't say anything about the fact that they will be "good guys" forever.
- ff10 13y ago
  This applies to good guys all over the world since ever. Btw, I did not state anywhere that I consider Switzerland as being the good guys. Applying qualities of character to a state is misleading IMHO.
VexXtreme 13y ago
Like the time when Swiss banks conveniently decided to forget their tradition of "civil liberties and rights" and en masse turned over their clients confidential personal information and financial records to the US authorities? They've already acted like America's little bitch once, what makes you think they're not going to do the same again?
toyg 13y ago
Switzerland recently increased cooperation efforts with EU countries on many, many issues. The geopolitical reality is that progressive (if glacially slow) solidification of the EU block is making it a politically as well as physically landlocked country. Such nations have clear limits in their independence in practice; to mention just one, any cable originating in Switzerland will inevitably have to pass through a EU country - worse, through a EU border, which allows for all sorts of shenanigans like the 2009 Swedish interception law.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

simgidacav 13y ago

I think there's an analogous between power and hardware/software failure. When power is centralized corruption effects are worse, exactly like when software is centralized failure effects are worse. Distribution is the answer. Distribute power, in a way in which it cannot be exploited. I'm not an expert in politics, but I guess that communism had this kind of principle, but it totally failed in implementing it.