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I think it is telling that you chose to only respond to half of my comment. NO, it is not legal for them to break traffic laws for non-emergencies. It is also i

by dfc 13y ago

I think it is telling that you chose to only respond to half of my comment. NO, it is not legal for them to break traffic laws for non-emergencies. It is also illegal for an officer to search my house without a valid search warrant. Furthermore it is illegal for an officer to discharge his weapon on Main Street for no particular reason. That being said they can do all of these things legally in the furtherance of their duties (your "delimited circumstances") as law enforcement officers. This is precisely why it is silly to speak of "a double standard," law enforcement officers are different from civilians. How would a society enforce the rule of law if we were equals?

jrs235 13y ago
Because the things you mention are both legal and lawful. Bearing false witness (lying) is unlawful [and therefore can not be legitimately legal, although people will claim that it is].
abecedarius 13y ago
The rule of law is that the state and its agents obey the law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law To the extent a power can enact "Whatever I do is the law" it's vacuous, of course. But power and discretion for state agents really is the opposite of the meaning of the phrase as I learned it. We are supposedly equals, and those from cops to the president are our employees, not our masters, though I'd agree that in the U.S. reality has gotten way off the model. Anyway, re enforcement among equals: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Commonwealth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Commonwealth
- dfc 13y ago
  I dont know how to respond to any of this. The first part does not seem to relate to anything I wrote. Maybe it was intended for someone else? The second bit is just a knee jerk jab at the US and a link to a wikipedia article with very little context.
  - abecedarius 13y ago
    Cops break traffic laws all the time, not just when they should. (And other laws too, I suppose less often but more importantly.) These traffic violations are the most visible case of public servants deeming themselves above the law; when you started your comment with them and equated them with the rest, I (apparently) mistook you to be defending them. It's good if I was wrong. The article outlines law enforcement without cops. You asked how this was possible.
    - dfc 13y ago
      Is there a typo on the wikipedia page you linked to? Or did you intend to point to a civilization from 930-1262? A time when there was no gunpowder (in europe), movable type printing press, penicillin, electricity, combustion engines, etc...
      - abecedarius 13y ago
        I gave your rhetorical question a real answer; it's clear you expected none. Now you're responding like an 18th-century royalist might to someone citing the precedent of Athenian democracy. I've had enough of this exchange.
- dfc 13y ago
  I dont know how to respond to any of this. The first part does not seem to relate to anything I wrote. Maybe it was intended for someone else? The second bit is just a knee jerk jab at the US and a link to a wikipedia article with very little context.

by dfc 13y ago

jrs235 13y ago

Because the things you mention are both legal and lawful. Bearing false witness (lying) is unlawful [and therefore can not be legitimately legal, although people will claim that it is].

abecedarius 13y ago

The rule of law is that the state and its agents obey the law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_law To the extent a power can enact "Whatever I do is the law" it's vacuous, of course. But power and discretion for state agents really is the opposite of the meaning of the phrase as I learned it. We are supposedly equals, and those from cops to the president are our employees, not our masters, though I'd agree that in the U.S. reality has gotten way off the model. Anyway, re enforcement among equals: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Commonwealth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Commonwealth

dfc 13y ago
I dont know how to respond to any of this. The first part does not seem to relate to anything I wrote. Maybe it was intended for someone else? The second bit is just a knee jerk jab at the US and a link to a wikipedia article with very little context.
- abecedarius 13y ago
  Cops break traffic laws all the time, not just when they should. (And other laws too, I suppose less often but more importantly.) These traffic violations are the most visible case of public servants deeming themselves above the law; when you started your comment with them and equated them with the rest, I (apparently) mistook you to be defending them. It's good if I was wrong. The article outlines law enforcement without cops. You asked how this was possible.
  - dfc 13y ago
    Is there a typo on the wikipedia page you linked to? Or did you intend to point to a civilization from 930-1262? A time when there was no gunpowder (in europe), movable type printing press, penicillin, electricity, combustion engines, etc...
    - abecedarius 13y ago
      I gave your rhetorical question a real answer; it's clear you expected none. Now you're responding like an 18th-century royalist might to someone citing the precedent of Athenian democracy. I've had enough of this exchange.
dfc 13y ago
I dont know how to respond to any of this. The first part does not seem to relate to anything I wrote. Maybe it was intended for someone else? The second bit is just a knee jerk jab at the US and a link to a wikipedia article with very little context.