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But it's not really about the degree of nudity, but the degree of uncomfortableness felt by the audience. That's what DHH, the presenter, and you are getting wr
by bena 18y ago
But it's not really about the degree of nudity, but the degree of uncomfortableness felt by the audience. That's what DHH, the presenter, and you are getting wrong. You are arguing about the wrong thing. It's not so much about the content of the slides, but how that content made that lone woman feel in a room full of men.
- yummyfajitas 18y agoMy main point is that most men (particularly most hacker men) would probably not have chosen to be offended under the same circumstances. I certainly would not have. I believe the mainstream of hacker man is simply very tolerant of differences. Several people here and elsewhere have come up with "what if the shoe were on the other foot" examples (stacks of penises, breastfeeding, images of surgery, etc). In each case, I had varying reactions from "clever" to "confusing" to "meh" (1). In no case would I choose to be offended. (1) I laughed at "Deliver like a Birth Mother." I'd probably be confused by images of good and bad breastfeeding technique.
- ericb 18y ago>> would probably not have chosen to be offended under the same circumstances. It is easy not to be offended when you are in the majority! Let's try yet another empathy experiment--although I suspect empathy cannot be taught. Imagine going to a professional conference where you are the minority. For example, if you're white, imagine everyone else is black or vice versa. Now imagine the presentation is filled with slides portraying your race in a demeaning or comical way. When you say this made you uncomfortable, the community leaders say "get over it." How welcome do you feel? Are you going to tell me with a straight face your answer would be "very welcome!"
- yummyfajitas 18y agoOr how about I'm an academic, and also a political conservative/libertarian. That's an extreme minority. If someone includes an anti-conservative joke on a slide (which has happened), I'm not offended. I have better things to worry about than bad (and sometimes good, but offensive) jokes in a presentation.
- ericb 18y agoRather than switch to a different example that is not outwardly visible nor nearly so divisive, please answer the original question. Do you feel "very welcome" in the given scenario?
- yummyfajitas 18y agoI switched to that example because it is real. But no, I don't think I'd be offended by a racist joke in a set of slides. For instance, comparing one database to a short white basketball player and another database to Shaq? In this case, there isn't even a sexist joke. The slides say nothing in particular about women. All they did was compare one database to a fat woman dressed as wonder woman and another to a beautiful woman in a bikini. What statement does this make about women?
- philwelch 18y ago"What statement does this make about women?" Your example implies that white people are bad at basketball, just as the slides imply that fat women are unattractive. But implicitly, the standard of comparison makes a statement, too. It makes the statement that women are sex objects who should be judged only on their most superficial characteristics. Men can be judged on their ability to play basketball but when it comes to women, the only standard of value is how sexually attractive they are.
- yummyfajitas 18y agoThe presentation doesn't make the statement that women should be judged by their sexual attractiveness. It makes the statement that porn stars should be.