5 ms·

There are good guys and bad guys in every movie. They are all actors in a movie that gives the illusion that they are actually governing in people's interest. R

by pvdm 13y ago

There are good guys and bad guys in every movie. They are all actors in a movie that gives the illusion that they are actually governing in people's interest. Read Chomsky's Manufactured Consent and see beyond the illusion.

u2328 13y ago
I've read Chomsky. I get the argument, but I reject it. It fails to address that I actually agree with a lot of things the Obama Administration has made progress on, especially regarding domestic policy. Health care, gay rights are some big ones. I think a Republican administration would have would have been way worse on those issues, and not much different on civil liberties or privacy.
- cmsmith 13y ago
  Obama 'started' supporting gay marriage in 2011. Given the current trajectory of public opinion, I would be surprised if the GOP candidate for president in 2020 or 2024 doesn't support gay marriage. I have a difficult time getting excited that one party changes their mind when 51% of voters support something, while the other party waits until 60% support it. You can repeat that story with the drug war (fighting over the 18:1 or 200:1 disparity in crack:powder cocaine sentences without actually reexamining what the hell we're doing) or fiscal policy (should we cut taxes for 99% of people or 100% of people, and should we cut government spending by $1T or $1.1T) or even health care (where no one has the stomach to even mention the words 'single payer').
  - u2328 13y ago
    Well, the proposition was that Democrats and Republicans are the same side of the coin. In terms of state surveillance, that certainly is appearing to be true. On social issues, it's clearly opposite, because I got my gay rights 9 years earlier than your proposition argues. > I have a difficult time getting excited that one party changes their mind when 51% of voters support something, while the other party waits until 60% support it. Okay, don't get excited then, that's your right. I just can't buy the argument that a McCain or Romney administration would have been no different than the Obama Administration on all the issues. That's painting with a broad brush.

by pvdm 13y ago

u2328 13y ago

I've read Chomsky. I get the argument, but I reject it. It fails to address that I actually agree with a lot of things the Obama Administration has made progress on, especially regarding domestic policy. Health care, gay rights are some big ones. I think a Republican administration would have would have been way worse on those issues, and not much different on civil liberties or privacy.

cmsmith 13y ago
Obama 'started' supporting gay marriage in 2011. Given the current trajectory of public opinion, I would be surprised if the GOP candidate for president in 2020 or 2024 doesn't support gay marriage. I have a difficult time getting excited that one party changes their mind when 51% of voters support something, while the other party waits until 60% support it. You can repeat that story with the drug war (fighting over the 18:1 or 200:1 disparity in crack:powder cocaine sentences without actually reexamining what the hell we're doing) or fiscal policy (should we cut taxes for 99% of people or 100% of people, and should we cut government spending by $1T or $1.1T) or even health care (where no one has the stomach to even mention the words 'single payer').
- u2328 13y ago
  Well, the proposition was that Democrats and Republicans are the same side of the coin. In terms of state surveillance, that certainly is appearing to be true. On social issues, it's clearly opposite, because I got my gay rights 9 years earlier than your proposition argues. > I have a difficult time getting excited that one party changes their mind when 51% of voters support something, while the other party waits until 60% support it. Okay, don't get excited then, that's your right. I just can't buy the argument that a McCain or Romney administration would have been no different than the Obama Administration on all the issues. That's painting with a broad brush.