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"Their playmates were so selectively chosen that they were rarely allowed to interact with other kids at all. It showed. They were socially underdeveloped to a

by d4vlx 13y ago

"Their playmates were so selectively chosen that they were rarely allowed to interact with other kids at all. It showed. They were socially underdeveloped to a degree that, in retrospect, is legitimately sort of troubling." "His skin was paper white, in Georgia, in August. He hadn’t been out in the sun in months. Not only did he not understand the rules of baseball, he was, at the age of about 12, physically unable to throw an object." "Steve, in effect, was completely socially isolated." The culture of acceptance of this kind of abuse in the US needs to change.

nostrademons 13y ago
I'm curious - would you say the same thing if it was a kid in rural, bible-thumping Arkansas with secular, scientifically-educated parents who want him to learn about evolution without interference? It's easy to forget that sometimes whole communities of people - sometimes millions of them - have values different from ours. And that there are people like us who are minorities in those communities. You can't protect the rights of those minorities without also protecting the rights of minorities within our communities, as strange as their beliefs may be.
- d4vlx 13y ago
  Good point, I definitely agree that the rights of minorities need to be protected. Some problems with this idea are with defining what are rights and what constitutes child abuse, and what to do about abuse. The extremes of social isolation that some of these kids endure falls on the abusive side of the line for me. I don't know what to do about that, it's a hard problem. Becoming less socially acceptable to behave that way among American adults seems like a reasonable step in the right direction. To answer your question, I think it would also be best for the scientist parents children to interact socially with other local children in rural, bible-thumping Arkansas. If they wanted to home school their kids that is their decision to make. Humans are social animals however and a reasonable amount of real world social interaction is important.
socillion 13y ago
The whole article rings true with my personal experiences, but I'd like to make it very clear that this has nothing to do with religion. Secular households are perfectly capable of making similar mistakes. Homeschooling ensures that if your family has issues, kids will be exposed to them 24/7, without the time spent elsewhere such as school. It effectively removes all checks and balances and leaves everything up to the parents, who can easily mess up. Particularly re: lack of socializing, I like to think of it as overoptimizing for IQ instead of EQ. It works, but as the kid you'll regret it down the road.
- otsuichi 13y ago
  I've never understood the mentality that leads to homeschooling. When so many people are terrified at becoming parents/at being new parents because they've just been entrusted with a life and they're afraid to screw up, where do parents find the confidence in themselves to believe that they should be responsible for the totality of a child's exposure to other people and knowledge? At least a school experience allows for new ideas, experiences, role models, and environments. E: Not to disrespect any parents who have decided to homeschool, of course. I was homeschooled before I was old enough to start preschool, and my brother was homeschooled for a year during, I think, middle school. It's a decision my own parents made, too, for a period.
  - travisfischer 13y ago
    For my parents and many of their friends the primary motivation was along this line of thinking. I'm not saying this is a totally fair or accurate line of thought but it is the line of thinking that leads one to decide to homeschool. I can take my child's education into my own hands and probably make a few mistakes along the way but at least I care deeply about my child and have a trusting relationship with my child. Children are resilant and the real things a child should learn through K-12 has more to do with character, the ability to learn, follow-through, complete a problem, read for comprehension, etc... Things that don't require a degree or certificate to effectively teach. Alternatively, I can trust their education to the State, to underfunded schools, to teachers (some of whom are great but some of whom are in place purely because of a broken system) who may care a little bit but have to split their care and attention between 20-80 other kids none of whom are their own, to an educational system which has long been optimized in the wrong directions and for the wrong reasons. Personally, I don't think that public school is worthless, I just think there are plenty of benefits to homeschooling that are well worth considering. Even just removing the in-effeciencies that have to exist in a system like public school, frees up so much time and energy for self-exploration, additional time to focus on things like music and technology which are underemphasized in a school "system". Additionally, if the parents do a good job of exposing their kids to an appropriate amount of socialization it removes some of the distraction of the constant social element in a school system. AKA, it's easier to focus on learning when you aren't distracted by the bully sitting behind you or the cute girl across from you. For me, I just hung out with the bully and cute girl after I was done learning. I do think some mix of learning with social is good but there are plenty of ways to do that, again in more ideal ratios.

by d4vlx 13y ago

nostrademons 13y ago

I'm curious - would you say the same thing if it was a kid in rural, bible-thumping Arkansas with secular, scientifically-educated parents who want him to learn about evolution without interference? It's easy to forget that sometimes whole communities of people - sometimes millions of them - have values different from ours. And that there are people like us who are minorities in those communities. You can't protect the rights of those minorities without also protecting the rights of minorities within our communities, as strange as their beliefs may be.

d4vlx 13y ago
Good point, I definitely agree that the rights of minorities need to be protected. Some problems with this idea are with defining what are rights and what constitutes child abuse, and what to do about abuse. The extremes of social isolation that some of these kids endure falls on the abusive side of the line for me. I don't know what to do about that, it's a hard problem. Becoming less socially acceptable to behave that way among American adults seems like a reasonable step in the right direction. To answer your question, I think it would also be best for the scientist parents children to interact socially with other local children in rural, bible-thumping Arkansas. If they wanted to home school their kids that is their decision to make. Humans are social animals however and a reasonable amount of real world social interaction is important.

socillion 13y ago

The whole article rings true with my personal experiences, but I'd like to make it very clear that this has nothing to do with religion. Secular households are perfectly capable of making similar mistakes. Homeschooling ensures that if your family has issues, kids will be exposed to them 24/7, without the time spent elsewhere such as school. It effectively removes all checks and balances and leaves everything up to the parents, who can easily mess up. Particularly re: lack of socializing, I like to think of it as overoptimizing for IQ instead of EQ. It works, but as the kid you'll regret it down the road.

otsuichi 13y ago
I've never understood the mentality that leads to homeschooling. When so many people are terrified at becoming parents/at being new parents because they've just been entrusted with a life and they're afraid to screw up, where do parents find the confidence in themselves to believe that they should be responsible for the totality of a child's exposure to other people and knowledge? At least a school experience allows for new ideas, experiences, role models, and environments. E: Not to disrespect any parents who have decided to homeschool, of course. I was homeschooled before I was old enough to start preschool, and my brother was homeschooled for a year during, I think, middle school. It's a decision my own parents made, too, for a period.
- travisfischer 13y ago
  For my parents and many of their friends the primary motivation was along this line of thinking. I'm not saying this is a totally fair or accurate line of thought but it is the line of thinking that leads one to decide to homeschool. I can take my child's education into my own hands and probably make a few mistakes along the way but at least I care deeply about my child and have a trusting relationship with my child. Children are resilant and the real things a child should learn through K-12 has more to do with character, the ability to learn, follow-through, complete a problem, read for comprehension, etc... Things that don't require a degree or certificate to effectively teach. Alternatively, I can trust their education to the State, to underfunded schools, to teachers (some of whom are great but some of whom are in place purely because of a broken system) who may care a little bit but have to split their care and attention between 20-80 other kids none of whom are their own, to an educational system which has long been optimized in the wrong directions and for the wrong reasons. Personally, I don't think that public school is worthless, I just think there are plenty of benefits to homeschooling that are well worth considering. Even just removing the in-effeciencies that have to exist in a system like public school, frees up so much time and energy for self-exploration, additional time to focus on things like music and technology which are underemphasized in a school "system". Additionally, if the parents do a good job of exposing their kids to an appropriate amount of socialization it removes some of the distraction of the constant social element in a school system. AKA, it's easier to focus on learning when you aren't distracted by the bully sitting behind you or the cute girl across from you. For me, I just hung out with the bully and cute girl after I was done learning. I do think some mix of learning with social is good but there are plenty of ways to do that, again in more ideal ratios.