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As an Asian in the United States, yes. In most places in the US being Asian is certainly being part of the underclass, though (fortunately?) we have it a lot be

As an Asian in the United States, yes. In most places in the US being Asian is certainly being part of the underclass, though (fortunately?) we have it a lot better than most other minorities. All of the ethnicities you mentioned were, for decades, if not an entire century, the underclass. Racism against the Irish, Italians, and Jews was extremely commonplace until relatively recent history. An when they stopped being demonized as minorities society find more, newer immigrants to vilify instead. Hispanics for one, and in our industry, Indians. I'm all for immigration and diversity, but let's call a spade a spade. Immigrants are an underclass, and it takes generations for the stigma to fade - if ever! Jews are still frequently discriminated against. Not to mention, politically, Japan is very high on the xenophobia scale. I'd be interested to see the effects of large-scale immigration on their society, though I suspect it won't be pretty. At all.

Turing_Machine 13y ago
So your argument is what, exactly? That the Jews, Asians, etc. shouldn't have been allowed to come because they wound up spending some time in the "underclass"? That's the original poster's argument, as near as I can tell. Is it also yours? Personally, I'm very happy that all those groups came.
- Turing_Machine 13y ago
  P.S. 49% of Asian-Americans 25 and older have at least a bachelor's degree, compared to 28% of the general population, and the median household income for Asian-Americans is $66,000, compared to $49,800 for the general population. http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/06/19/the-rise-of-asian-americans/ http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/06/19/the-rise-of-asian-... Sorry, that not really an "underclass". Sure, there's still bigotry against Asians. That, in itself, doesn't make them an "underclass". Words have meanings.
- potatolicious 13y ago
  Pardon the aggressiveness, but are you Asian? I live with my skin color and my last name every single day - are you seriously going to whip out a bunch of numbers and telling me that my experience, on the ground, as well as the experiences of my family and every other Asian around me, is null and void? Note that I specifically disclaimed in my post that I support immigration. But you're idealizing immigration to an absurd extreme. Immigrants are treated as second-class in near every facet of life in the USA. That we don't have lynchings and head taxes anymore doesn't mean this class separation doesn't exist. But let's get at your numbers: > "49% of Asian-Americans 25 and older have at least a bachelor's degree, compared to 28% of the general population" True, until you realize that despite consisting of 5% of the population[0], and being extremely over-educated compared to the general population, Asians represent only 2% of corporate leadership positions[1][2]. Let's not forget also that despite years of Whites being dramatically over-represented in top universities and colleges, no quota'ing was ever put in place until Asians started to threaten White dominance in schools[3]. This isn't a sob story about Asians in particular - if you replace Asian with Black, or Hispanic, the result would be the same. Minorities in America were never meant to take center stage and assume influence - we were supposed to stick to the sidelines and provide color to society and little more. Your claim for median income is meaningless in this context. Asians fare very well in the job market, so long as they stick to individual contributor positions. Want to move into management? Not impossible, but you now have to work harder than your White colleagues to overcome the stereotype that Asians are timid and indecisive. There is a gigantic glass ceiling in place for all Asian-Americans which few have successfully broken. So let's talk about what we mean by "underclass". An underclass is not solely defined by income or education - an underclass is defined by how its members are treated in common society. We have a demographic here that, despite proving their merit, are besieged at all levels of education for being "too smart" (imagine for one moment that claim being leveled against Whites). They are, in popular culture and the media, portrayed as sidekicks and cultural curiosities rather than humans of depth. They are, in higher levels of society (both in income and in influence) dramatically under-represented. And all of the above isn't unique to Asians. South Asians, African-Americans, Hispanics and Latinos, all face similar issues. Is the situation getting better? Hell yeah. The Italians and Irish who were the butt of this sort of discrimination decades ago are largely free from it now - but it took decades upon decades of fighting discrimination, and gritting their teeth to get there, and it will take the same for the current whipping-boy minorities to do the same. So let's not pretend that we live in some kind of utopian society where immigrants are welcomed with open arms and treated equally. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Stat... [1] http://www.insightintodiversity.com/asian-americans-in-leadership-the-invisible-minority-by-dr-edna-chun http://www.insightintodiversity.com/asian-americans-in-leade... [2] http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904233404576462042857022426.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405311190423340457646... [3] http://blog.priceonomics.com/post/48794283011/do-elite-colleges-discriminate-against-asians http://blog.priceonomics.com/post/48794283011/do-elite-colle...
  - Turing_Machine 13y ago
    "Pardon the aggressiveness, but are you Asian?" Why does that even matter? "An underclass is not solely defined by income or education - an underclass is defined by how its members are treated in common society." Wikipedia gives three common definitions of "underclass". Asians don't qualify under any of them. Sorry, they just don't. Edit: to be specific, these are given as: "Focus on economics". We've already disposed of this one. "Focus on space and place" (i.e., forced to live in a ghetto). Nope. "Focus on behavior", i.e. "street hustlers, welfare families, drug addicts, and former mental patients." Nope. I think I already stipulated that there's still prejudice against Asians, so I'm not sure what that lengthy rant was about.

Turing_Machine 13y ago

So your argument is what, exactly? That the Jews, Asians, etc. shouldn't have been allowed to come because they wound up spending some time in the "underclass"? That's the original poster's argument, as near as I can tell. Is it also yours? Personally, I'm very happy that all those groups came.

Turing_Machine 13y ago
P.S. 49% of Asian-Americans 25 and older have at least a bachelor's degree, compared to 28% of the general population, and the median household income for Asian-Americans is $66,000, compared to $49,800 for the general population. http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/06/19/the-rise-of-asian-americans/ http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/06/19/the-rise-of-asian-... Sorry, that not really an "underclass". Sure, there's still bigotry against Asians. That, in itself, doesn't make them an "underclass". Words have meanings.
potatolicious 13y ago
Pardon the aggressiveness, but are you Asian? I live with my skin color and my last name every single day - are you seriously going to whip out a bunch of numbers and telling me that my experience, on the ground, as well as the experiences of my family and every other Asian around me, is null and void? Note that I specifically disclaimed in my post that I support immigration. But you're idealizing immigration to an absurd extreme. Immigrants are treated as second-class in near every facet of life in the USA. That we don't have lynchings and head taxes anymore doesn't mean this class separation doesn't exist. But let's get at your numbers: > "49% of Asian-Americans 25 and older have at least a bachelor's degree, compared to 28% of the general population" True, until you realize that despite consisting of 5% of the population[0], and being extremely over-educated compared to the general population, Asians represent only 2% of corporate leadership positions[1][2]. Let's not forget also that despite years of Whites being dramatically over-represented in top universities and colleges, no quota'ing was ever put in place until Asians started to threaten White dominance in schools[3]. This isn't a sob story about Asians in particular - if you replace Asian with Black, or Hispanic, the result would be the same. Minorities in America were never meant to take center stage and assume influence - we were supposed to stick to the sidelines and provide color to society and little more. Your claim for median income is meaningless in this context. Asians fare very well in the job market, so long as they stick to individual contributor positions. Want to move into management? Not impossible, but you now have to work harder than your White colleagues to overcome the stereotype that Asians are timid and indecisive. There is a gigantic glass ceiling in place for all Asian-Americans which few have successfully broken. So let's talk about what we mean by "underclass". An underclass is not solely defined by income or education - an underclass is defined by how its members are treated in common society. We have a demographic here that, despite proving their merit, are besieged at all levels of education for being "too smart" (imagine for one moment that claim being leveled against Whites). They are, in popular culture and the media, portrayed as sidekicks and cultural curiosities rather than humans of depth. They are, in higher levels of society (both in income and in influence) dramatically under-represented. And all of the above isn't unique to Asians. South Asians, African-Americans, Hispanics and Latinos, all face similar issues. Is the situation getting better? Hell yeah. The Italians and Irish who were the butt of this sort of discrimination decades ago are largely free from it now - but it took decades upon decades of fighting discrimination, and gritting their teeth to get there, and it will take the same for the current whipping-boy minorities to do the same. So let's not pretend that we live in some kind of utopian society where immigrants are welcomed with open arms and treated equally. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Race_and_ethnicity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Stat... [1] http://www.insightintodiversity.com/asian-americans-in-leadership-the-invisible-minority-by-dr-edna-chun http://www.insightintodiversity.com/asian-americans-in-leade... [2] http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904233404576462042857022426.html http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405311190423340457646... [3] http://blog.priceonomics.com/post/48794283011/do-elite-colleges-discriminate-against-asians http://blog.priceonomics.com/post/48794283011/do-elite-colle...
- Turing_Machine 13y ago
  "Pardon the aggressiveness, but are you Asian?" Why does that even matter? "An underclass is not solely defined by income or education - an underclass is defined by how its members are treated in common society." Wikipedia gives three common definitions of "underclass". Asians don't qualify under any of them. Sorry, they just don't. Edit: to be specific, these are given as: "Focus on economics". We've already disposed of this one. "Focus on space and place" (i.e., forced to live in a ghetto). Nope. "Focus on behavior", i.e. "street hustlers, welfare families, drug addicts, and former mental patients." Nope. I think I already stipulated that there's still prejudice against Asians, so I'm not sure what that lengthy rant was about.