3 ms·

I disagree. I think they should have only been charged with the trespassing, and instead the management of the facility should have been been on the hook for so

by rapind 13y ago

I disagree. I think they should have only been charged with the trespassing, and instead the management of the facility should have been been on the hook for some serious negligence charges. Let's just assume for a second that there are terrorists out there younger and a little more nimble than an 82 year old... If the whole point is the send a message to the public / make an example of, then it should be those responsible for security (and the budget for security, etc. up the line) that should be made the example of.

jasallen 13y ago
I completely agree with negligence on the part of the facility management and entire hierarchy of responsibility there. I just think it's a separate issue :-)
- andrewcooke 13y ago
  it's not separate. the reason why such harsh penalties are needed (i imagine, from the pov of the government) is because there's nothing else to stop others from doing the same damage. in your apology for the status quo above, where you mumble on about the need to protect society (and make trains run on time), you conveniently forget that there are many tools for that, including security guards. also, if there had been competent security, then they wouldn't have got so far and would likely be open to significantly less charges. it seems particularly unfair (to me, i guess you'll find an excuse) that the incompetent security lead directly to worse charges. so again - not separate. i'm sorry for the vitriol above, well not really, but people who say they understand and then dream up excuses to have everything continue exactly as before make my blood boil.
  - jasallen 13y ago
    huh, and phrases like 'mumble on' make your point stronger? I wonder, what have you stood up for? I was trying to have an exchange of ideas, but as long as we're making it personal, people who save their bravery and vitriol for the internet make my blood boil.
    - andrewcooke 13y ago
      if it's any consolation, i would be mad in your face too. but my post had both rhetoric and an argument. yours? [update: on the other hand, this is the second time in two days i've lost my temper, which isn't good. i am going to take a break from the internet.]
jasallen 13y ago
Also, I think its important to note that no one is disputing Destruction of Property as something they genuinely are guilty of. If there was naivety involved in this, I genuinely feel for these people. If this was the stand they wanted to make, than this thread is perhaps the start of the attention they wanted to the topic. But for reals folks, if you are not prepared to spend 'years' in jail, do not break in to a government weapons facility, guarded or not. Please, for me. :-)
- danielharan 13y ago
  What do you think would be an appropriately harsh punishment for an 82 year old nun and couple other seniors breaking through a fence and putting up a banner at a nuclear facility, then wait to be arrested?
honzzz 13y ago
>>> I think they should have only been charged with the trespassing, and instead the management of the facility should have been been on the hook for some serious negligence charges. Exactly. I find it outrageous that the manager of that facility claimed that "their acts had an impact on nuclear deterrence" - their acts did not, his did and IMO he should rot in jail. Don’t blame the mirror for your ugly face.

by rapind 13y ago

jasallen 13y ago

I completely agree with negligence on the part of the facility management and entire hierarchy of responsibility there. I just think it's a separate issue :-)

andrewcooke 13y ago
it's not separate. the reason why such harsh penalties are needed (i imagine, from the pov of the government) is because there's nothing else to stop others from doing the same damage. in your apology for the status quo above, where you mumble on about the need to protect society (and make trains run on time), you conveniently forget that there are many tools for that, including security guards. also, if there had been competent security, then they wouldn't have got so far and would likely be open to significantly less charges. it seems particularly unfair (to me, i guess you'll find an excuse) that the incompetent security lead directly to worse charges. so again - not separate. i'm sorry for the vitriol above, well not really, but people who say they understand and then dream up excuses to have everything continue exactly as before make my blood boil.
- jasallen 13y ago
  huh, and phrases like 'mumble on' make your point stronger? I wonder, what have you stood up for? I was trying to have an exchange of ideas, but as long as we're making it personal, people who save their bravery and vitriol for the internet make my blood boil.
  - andrewcooke 13y ago
    if it's any consolation, i would be mad in your face too. but my post had both rhetoric and an argument. yours? [update: on the other hand, this is the second time in two days i've lost my temper, which isn't good. i am going to take a break from the internet.]

jasallen 13y ago

Also, I think its important to note that no one is disputing Destruction of Property as something they genuinely are guilty of. If there was naivety involved in this, I genuinely feel for these people. If this was the stand they wanted to make, than this thread is perhaps the start of the attention they wanted to the topic. But for reals folks, if you are not prepared to spend 'years' in jail, do not break in to a government weapons facility, guarded or not. Please, for me. :-)

danielharan 13y ago
What do you think would be an appropriately harsh punishment for an 82 year old nun and couple other seniors breaking through a fence and putting up a banner at a nuclear facility, then wait to be arrested?

honzzz 13y ago

>>> I think they should have only been charged with the trespassing, and instead the management of the facility should have been been on the hook for some serious negligence charges. Exactly. I find it outrageous that the manager of that facility claimed that "their acts had an impact on nuclear deterrence" - their acts did not, his did and IMO he should rot in jail. Don’t blame the mirror for your ugly face.