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Prosecutor posts as accused killer's fake girlfriend on Facebook

41 points by rubikscube 13y ago

amirmc 13y ago
"... assistant county prosecutor Kevin Filiatraut discovered the Facebook transcripts in the file and questioned Brockler about them." And if he hadn't put the transcripts in the file, no-one may ever have known.
bayesianhorse 13y ago
Really hard to judge without knowing the rest of the case. Lying to suspects isn't unethical. Intruding into a suspect's personal life by potentially destroying relationships is a much tougher proposition. Imagine the situation where the man is actually innocent, and his girlfriend(s) go berserk on him because of the ruse.
- amirmc 13y ago
  That was my first thought. The prosecutor took it upon himself to manipulate two people. It should have been the police's job to probe the veracity of the alibis.
- DanBC 13y ago
  It's pretty disturbing to read things like this: "Unless I could break this guy’s alibi a murderer might be walking on the street. There was such a small window of opportunity, I had to act fast." The guy has obviously decided that this man is a murderer, and needs to be convicted, and thus it's okay to take "extreme" measures to break an alibi. Sometimes this results in guilty people being convicted, but it also results in wrongful convictions.
brunorsini 13y ago
Although the outcome here seems good the opposite could have very easily been the case. There's a reason why "due process" is treated as a sacred principle in democratic countries. From Wikipedia: When a government harms a person without following the exact course of the law, this constitutes a due-process violation, which offends against the rule of law. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process_of_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process_of_law)
- smsm42 13y ago
  For police to lie to a suspect - or anybody else - is not against the law and AFAIK does not violate "due process". Giving false testimony however - which two girlfriends were about to do - is a crime, called perjury. So the prosecutor actually prevented two crimes from being committed.
  - amirmc 13y ago
    "So the prosecutor actually prevented two crimes from being committed." Do we really know that? It caused the women to "go crazy", perhaps crazy enough to want to hurt the boyfriend, which they could do by withdrawing their alibi. We simply can't know from the info in the article.
tdrd 13y ago
Don't see the problem here. He did not intimidate, falsify evidence, or otherwise violate due process. His job is (was) to uphold the law, not his boss' moral code.
- charonn0 13y ago
  He manipulated witnesses with lies calculated to cause anger, mistrust, and antipathy towards the defendant. His actions were unbecoming of an officer of the court.
- inetsee 13y ago
  It sounds to me as if what he did could be considered witness intimidation. Lawyers are considered to be officers of the court, and are held to a higher ethical standard than police officers, who are allowed to use deception to gather evidence. This prosecutor is probably lucky that the only thing that happened to him was that he got fired. He could just as easily have been referred to the Bar Association for sanctions, including disbarment.
- 300bps 13y ago
  You're assuming the defendant's guilt. Instead, consider it just as likely that he didn't commit the murder and that his alibi was legitimate - he really was somewhere else when the murder was committed and his girlfriend is a witness to that fact. Now make up a false story telling the girlfriend he was cheating on her and even had a baby with another woman. She "goes crazy" and now lies and says he was not with her when the murders were done. How is this serving justice? It is not the job of law enforcement to manipulate evidence, it is their job to gather evidence.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
swamp40 13y ago
What we're seeing here is the crux of the problem with allowing police (and prosecutors) to lie to a person in order to obtain a confession. It's unethical. And once you teach this bastardized ethics to police (and prosecutors), they now think LYING is a perfectly acceptable means to an end. And then you see crap like this.
- voidlogic 13y ago
  When I was in HS and I learned that police could lie I was floored. Obviously it is unethical, but I think it causes ethics rot: I think the scariest thing about telling police that it is OK to lie is that it sets up the standard that normal rules social of social conduct don't apply to them, and what are laws but very formal rules social of social conduct... In this case I am impressed with the Cleveland County Prosecutor for letting this guy go.
justin66 13y ago
The guy who wrote that blog item apparently doesn't know what county Cleveland is in. I suggest reading the cleveland.com material. I wonder why people link to the blog instead of the actual story, it's not behind a paywall. http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/06/cuyahoga_county_prosecutor_fir.html http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/06/cuyahoga_co...
SeanDav 13y ago
I don't see a lot of difference between this and any police or government sting operation.

41 points by rubikscube 13y ago

"... assistant county prosecutor Kevin Filiatraut discovered the Facebook transcripts in the file and questioned Brockler about them." And if he hadn't put the transcripts in the file, no-one may ever have known.

bayesianhorse 13y ago

Really hard to judge without knowing the rest of the case. Lying to suspects isn't unethical. Intruding into a suspect's personal life by potentially destroying relationships is a much tougher proposition. Imagine the situation where the man is actually innocent, and his girlfriend(s) go berserk on him because of the ruse.

amirmc 13y ago
That was my first thought. The prosecutor took it upon himself to manipulate two people. It should have been the police's job to probe the veracity of the alibis.
DanBC 13y ago
It's pretty disturbing to read things like this: "Unless I could break this guy’s alibi a murderer might be walking on the street. There was such a small window of opportunity, I had to act fast." The guy has obviously decided that this man is a murderer, and needs to be convicted, and thus it's okay to take "extreme" measures to break an alibi. Sometimes this results in guilty people being convicted, but it also results in wrongful convictions.

brunorsini 13y ago

Although the outcome here seems good the opposite could have very easily been the case. There's a reason why "due process" is treated as a sacred principle in democratic countries. From Wikipedia: When a government harms a person without following the exact course of the law, this constitutes a due-process violation, which offends against the rule of law. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process_of_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_process_of_law)

smsm42 13y ago
For police to lie to a suspect - or anybody else - is not against the law and AFAIK does not violate "due process". Giving false testimony however - which two girlfriends were about to do - is a crime, called perjury. So the prosecutor actually prevented two crimes from being committed.
- amirmc 13y ago
  "So the prosecutor actually prevented two crimes from being committed." Do we really know that? It caused the women to "go crazy", perhaps crazy enough to want to hurt the boyfriend, which they could do by withdrawing their alibi. We simply can't know from the info in the article.

tdrd 13y ago

Don't see the problem here. He did not intimidate, falsify evidence, or otherwise violate due process. His job is (was) to uphold the law, not his boss' moral code.

charonn0 13y ago
He manipulated witnesses with lies calculated to cause anger, mistrust, and antipathy towards the defendant. His actions were unbecoming of an officer of the court.
inetsee 13y ago
It sounds to me as if what he did could be considered witness intimidation. Lawyers are considered to be officers of the court, and are held to a higher ethical standard than police officers, who are allowed to use deception to gather evidence. This prosecutor is probably lucky that the only thing that happened to him was that he got fired. He could just as easily have been referred to the Bar Association for sanctions, including disbarment.
300bps 13y ago
You're assuming the defendant's guilt. Instead, consider it just as likely that he didn't commit the murder and that his alibi was legitimate - he really was somewhere else when the murder was committed and his girlfriend is a witness to that fact. Now make up a false story telling the girlfriend he was cheating on her and even had a baby with another woman. She "goes crazy" and now lies and says he was not with her when the murders were done. How is this serving justice? It is not the job of law enforcement to manipulate evidence, it is their job to gather evidence.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

swamp40 13y ago

What we're seeing here is the crux of the problem with allowing police (and prosecutors) to lie to a person in order to obtain a confession. It's unethical. And once you teach this bastardized ethics to police (and prosecutors), they now think LYING is a perfectly acceptable means to an end. And then you see crap like this.

voidlogic 13y ago
When I was in HS and I learned that police could lie I was floored. Obviously it is unethical, but I think it causes ethics rot: I think the scariest thing about telling police that it is OK to lie is that it sets up the standard that normal rules social of social conduct don't apply to them, and what are laws but very formal rules social of social conduct... In this case I am impressed with the Cleveland County Prosecutor for letting this guy go.

justin66 13y ago

The guy who wrote that blog item apparently doesn't know what county Cleveland is in. I suggest reading the cleveland.com material. I wonder why people link to the blog instead of the actual story, it's not behind a paywall. http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/06/cuyahoga_county_prosecutor_fir.html http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2013/06/cuyahoga_co...

SeanDav 13y ago

I don't see a lot of difference between this and any police or government sting operation.