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How can you trust the US government less than private companies? Data mining exists at every company because of its value. I'm much more concerned that privat

by dm2 13y ago

How can you trust the US government less than private companies? Data mining exists at every company because of its value. I'm much more concerned that private companies (Lexis Nexis I'm looking at you) have access to so much of my data and have no obligation to inform me of what data they have. The US government exists to protect the United States and its citizens. If we put left vs right politics aside, why is there inherit distrust of the government? What would make you trust them? More transparency? If anybody is to blame it is congress. As elected representatives, they should have ultimate responsibility as to what happens in this country. They should also be held liable for ALL of their actions, but good luck getting them to approve that. How can congress enact laws that only affect themselves or give them more power? That is corruption and should be considered treason.

mtgx 13y ago
Because clearly the US government is doing much worse stuff than the private companies right now. And when someone discovers it, they try to put him in jail. I don't know about you, but that scares me more than if I found out the private company sold my info.
protomyth 13y ago
> How can you trust the US government less than private companies? The US government can throw me in jail, private companies cannot. The US government can sick the IRS, FBI, and Secret Service after me; private companies cannot. Congress has a lot of the liability, but so does the President. Read up on FDR's use of the IRS and what happened to the various Tea Party groups in 2010 with 501(c)4 status[1]. This is why the expansion of federal government reach is feared. 1) someone will argue about the nature of 501(c)4 so just remember that Obama's reelection campaign relaunched as one to advocate for his political agenda for his 2nd term.
- dm2 13y ago
  What is your point about the Tea Party groups and 501(c)4? In my opinion, that is just another loophole that needs to be closed, same as religious organization tax exemption.
  - protomyth 13y ago
    One side was treated different than the other. Pure and simple failure to follow the rules. When government agencies don't follow the rules and treat all as equals then we have problems. Clearly having a 501(c)4 with a political bent isn't the problem or else Obama's reelection campaign relaunch would have seen the same scrutiny and rejection. > In my opinion, that is just another loophole that needs to be closed, same as religious organization tax exemption Regardless of your wish to close loopholes, the current law needs to be followed: equally and fairly. Going back to how taxes should work is a side trail and not relevant to how the government has acted against different parties.
- dclowd9901 13y ago
  And, at the end of the day, if I'm not a fan of a private company's practices, however painful it might be, I can choose not to utilize their services. But as long as I live anywhere on this planet, I'm subject to the choices of my government.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
nostrademons 13y ago
The purpose of all bureaucracies eventually becomes the furtherance of the bureaucracy itself. It's like a rule of nature: regardless of their stated purposes, the actual purpose of an organization eventually becomes the growth and survival of the organization. Organizations that do not follow this rule do not survive. The incentives of private companies tend to be fairly transparent, and they can be replaced (not necessarily easily) when no longer aligned with the welfare of the public. The incentives of the government are not nearly so transparent, and there is no escaping them. That makes many people quite wary of the government. (That said, yes, more transparency would make me much more inclined to trust them.)
- dm2 13y ago
  How much further does the US government want/need to go before they have enough power/security to effectively and efficiently manage and protect its citizens? I hate the idea of prosecuting whistle-blowers. On the other hand, I definitely realize the importance of protecting national secrets and information in an ongoing investigation. In my mind, it's not a battle between the US govt and its citizens, this is a battle between nations. Some activists, political party supporters, extremists, criminals, and innocents might be targeted/embarrassed/prosecuted by these programs, that that is not only unacceptable, but disgusting. The US govt simply cannot be as transparent as citizens would like it to because information is available globally. We do still have a significant amount of room to allow for transparency in the govt and we are slowly (too slowly) working on it, but please understand that SIGINT and foreign relations is complicated as shit. The US has it's nose in every other countries business, they befriend questionable sources for information, they deceive (can't deceive another country without deceiving our own citizens), and they do what it takes to maintain world stability and US dominance in all areas (economic, information, military, "freedom"). I don't know of an easy fix-all solution. Online voting might help, that would remove power from congress and give it back to the people.

by dm2 13y ago

mtgx 13y ago

Because clearly the US government is doing much worse stuff than the private companies right now. And when someone discovers it, they try to put him in jail. I don't know about you, but that scares me more than if I found out the private company sold my info.

protomyth 13y ago

> How can you trust the US government less than private companies? The US government can throw me in jail, private companies cannot. The US government can sick the IRS, FBI, and Secret Service after me; private companies cannot. Congress has a lot of the liability, but so does the President. Read up on FDR's use of the IRS and what happened to the various Tea Party groups in 2010 with 501(c)4 status[1]. This is why the expansion of federal government reach is feared. 1) someone will argue about the nature of 501(c)4 so just remember that Obama's reelection campaign relaunched as one to advocate for his political agenda for his 2nd term.

dm2 13y ago
What is your point about the Tea Party groups and 501(c)4? In my opinion, that is just another loophole that needs to be closed, same as religious organization tax exemption.
- protomyth 13y ago
  One side was treated different than the other. Pure and simple failure to follow the rules. When government agencies don't follow the rules and treat all as equals then we have problems. Clearly having a 501(c)4 with a political bent isn't the problem or else Obama's reelection campaign relaunch would have seen the same scrutiny and rejection. > In my opinion, that is just another loophole that needs to be closed, same as religious organization tax exemption Regardless of your wish to close loopholes, the current law needs to be followed: equally and fairly. Going back to how taxes should work is a side trail and not relevant to how the government has acted against different parties.
dclowd9901 13y ago
And, at the end of the day, if I'm not a fan of a private company's practices, however painful it might be, I can choose not to utilize their services. But as long as I live anywhere on this planet, I'm subject to the choices of my government.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

nostrademons 13y ago

The purpose of all bureaucracies eventually becomes the furtherance of the bureaucracy itself. It's like a rule of nature: regardless of their stated purposes, the actual purpose of an organization eventually becomes the growth and survival of the organization. Organizations that do not follow this rule do not survive. The incentives of private companies tend to be fairly transparent, and they can be replaced (not necessarily easily) when no longer aligned with the welfare of the public. The incentives of the government are not nearly so transparent, and there is no escaping them. That makes many people quite wary of the government. (That said, yes, more transparency would make me much more inclined to trust them.)

dm2 13y ago
How much further does the US government want/need to go before they have enough power/security to effectively and efficiently manage and protect its citizens? I hate the idea of prosecuting whistle-blowers. On the other hand, I definitely realize the importance of protecting national secrets and information in an ongoing investigation. In my mind, it's not a battle between the US govt and its citizens, this is a battle between nations. Some activists, political party supporters, extremists, criminals, and innocents might be targeted/embarrassed/prosecuted by these programs, that that is not only unacceptable, but disgusting. The US govt simply cannot be as transparent as citizens would like it to because information is available globally. We do still have a significant amount of room to allow for transparency in the govt and we are slowly (too slowly) working on it, but please understand that SIGINT and foreign relations is complicated as shit. The US has it's nose in every other countries business, they befriend questionable sources for information, they deceive (can't deceive another country without deceiving our own citizens), and they do what it takes to maintain world stability and US dominance in all areas (economic, information, military, "freedom"). I don't know of an easy fix-all solution. Online voting might help, that would remove power from congress and give it back to the people.