5 ms·

Are you sure they don't hate the "decadence" of modern Western society?

by twoodfin 13y ago

jlgreco 13y ago
No doubt it is our freedom to be decadent. /s
- twoodfin 13y ago
  It is, actually. Do you really think it's a coincidence that these guys set up shop in some of the most religiously oppressive places in the world?
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    "Set up shop"? Where were they previously? Do you really think it is a coincidence that the more people we bomb, the more there seem to be?
    - mpyne 13y ago
      They were in Sudan previously, as I recall. By the way, Clinton did attack Sudanese AQ training camps (watch "Wag the Dog"); still waiting for the Sudanese terrorists...
ucee054 13y ago
Ask Michael Scheuer: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgj08e_michael-scheuer-on-bin-laden-s-true-motives_news#.UbPIvdvMdXI http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgj08e_michael-scheuer-on-b...
- Alex3917 13y ago
  Didn't Bin Laden also supposedly say that he was against the US because of the lack of action taken on global warming?
- twoodfin 13y ago
  His argument is that radical Islamists hate us for what we do, not who we are. But we do what we do because of who we are. That's nearly a tautology in a democracy. We support Israel because its people largely share our values. We threw Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait and maintained a presence in Saudi Arabia because we support and defend the sovereignty of our allies, particularly when those allies supply vital resources. We continued to prop up Mubarak because we thought he was better than the alternative, etc. All of these are policies reached through a free, democratic process, which has not been a hallmark of those societies which have welcomed Al Qaeda into their midst. Also, have you heard of Sayyid Qutb? Just curious.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    Also remember when all the fatwas were proclaimed for a Danish newspapers publication of a cartoon featuring the Prophet Muhammad? That's not even considering the issue of extremist religion and Sharia law, as led to the shooting and near-murder of Malala Yousafzai. Islamist culture is not entirely compatible with Western democracy, just as far-right fundamentalist Christian extremism is not entirely compatible with Western democracy (e.g. the 1996 Olympic Park bombing).
    - jckt 13y ago
      Why do you say Islamist and not radical Islamist, while you say Christian extremism and not just Christian?
      - mpyne 13y ago
        I'm using Islamist as the term was first defined, which means exactly "Islamic terrorism". As far as I know there's never been a popularly-agreed-on meaning of "Islamist" other than that, if you're referring to the peaceful followers of Allah the term is Muslim, or perhaps Islamic, but never Islamist. Christian on the other hand is already overloaded with many meanings and I don't feel like inventing new words when I can simply add adjectives as appropriate. Pray tell, is my explanation sufficient?
TeMPOraL 13y ago
Someone's "decadence" is much easier to ignore if they don't keep bombing your villages and cities.
- twoodfin 13y ago
  I'm sorry: Which of Mohamed Atta or Osama Bin Laden's villages did "we" bomb prior to 9/11?
  - ucee054 13y ago
    Are you trying frame things to make Palestine out to be a non-issue?
  - tinco 13y ago
    The reason Mohamed Atta or Osama Bin Laden hated the U.S. need not be the same reason their followers hate the U.S. Let's just say that Al Qaida had an easy time recruiting men with a grudge against the U.S. The western worlds 'decadent' lifestyles are just a way for Al Qaida to dehumanize them. That said, I bet Mohammed Atta and Osama Bin Laden also have their reasons besides idealistic ones to despise the western world.
  - joering2 13y ago
    Osama Ibn Laden has equally to do with 9/11 as you or me with Boston Bombing. Well, that's overstatement, but here are some facts for you to digest: - Osama never took responsibility for 911. His multiple speeches he gave recorded in caves after 911 were incorrectly translated and heavily redacted for political purposes. E was just perfect to be framed. Anyone speaking Laden's language can hear him speaking that his family were doing business with Bush family (proven fact) for decades and he would never be competent to carry such an attack. Unfortunately, most videos of him speaking without overlapping loud audio vanished and any translation you find you can barely hear his native language. But you can find interview with people that were asked to translate his words ad they were pretty angry that everything got twisted. - ibn Laden was on FBI top list but never for 911. As far as I remember he was most wanted for some huge oil fraud he performed while his family did work with Bushes.

Are you sure they don't hate the "decadence" of modern Western society?

jlgreco 13y ago

No doubt it is our freedom to be decadent. /s

twoodfin 13y ago
It is, actually. Do you really think it's a coincidence that these guys set up shop in some of the most religiously oppressive places in the world?
- jlgreco 13y ago
  "Set up shop"? Where were they previously? Do you really think it is a coincidence that the more people we bomb, the more there seem to be?
  - mpyne 13y ago
    They were in Sudan previously, as I recall. By the way, Clinton did attack Sudanese AQ training camps (watch "Wag the Dog"); still waiting for the Sudanese terrorists...

ucee054 13y ago

Ask Michael Scheuer: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgj08e_michael-scheuer-on-bin-laden-s-true-motives_news#.UbPIvdvMdXI http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgj08e_michael-scheuer-on-b...

Alex3917 13y ago
Didn't Bin Laden also supposedly say that he was against the US because of the lack of action taken on global warming?
twoodfin 13y ago
His argument is that radical Islamists hate us for what we do, not who we are. But we do what we do because of who we are. That's nearly a tautology in a democracy. We support Israel because its people largely share our values. We threw Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait and maintained a presence in Saudi Arabia because we support and defend the sovereignty of our allies, particularly when those allies supply vital resources. We continued to prop up Mubarak because we thought he was better than the alternative, etc. All of these are policies reached through a free, democratic process, which has not been a hallmark of those societies which have welcomed Al Qaeda into their midst. Also, have you heard of Sayyid Qutb? Just curious.
- mpyne 13y ago
  Also remember when all the fatwas were proclaimed for a Danish newspapers publication of a cartoon featuring the Prophet Muhammad? That's not even considering the issue of extremist religion and Sharia law, as led to the shooting and near-murder of Malala Yousafzai. Islamist culture is not entirely compatible with Western democracy, just as far-right fundamentalist Christian extremism is not entirely compatible with Western democracy (e.g. the 1996 Olympic Park bombing).
  - jckt 13y ago
    Why do you say Islamist and not radical Islamist, while you say Christian extremism and not just Christian?
    - mpyne 13y ago
      I'm using Islamist as the term was first defined, which means exactly "Islamic terrorism". As far as I know there's never been a popularly-agreed-on meaning of "Islamist" other than that, if you're referring to the peaceful followers of Allah the term is Muslim, or perhaps Islamic, but never Islamist. Christian on the other hand is already overloaded with many meanings and I don't feel like inventing new words when I can simply add adjectives as appropriate. Pray tell, is my explanation sufficient?

TeMPOraL 13y ago

Someone's "decadence" is much easier to ignore if they don't keep bombing your villages and cities.

twoodfin 13y ago
I'm sorry: Which of Mohamed Atta or Osama Bin Laden's villages did "we" bomb prior to 9/11?
- ucee054 13y ago
  Are you trying frame things to make Palestine out to be a non-issue?
- tinco 13y ago
  The reason Mohamed Atta or Osama Bin Laden hated the U.S. need not be the same reason their followers hate the U.S. Let's just say that Al Qaida had an easy time recruiting men with a grudge against the U.S. The western worlds 'decadent' lifestyles are just a way for Al Qaida to dehumanize them. That said, I bet Mohammed Atta and Osama Bin Laden also have their reasons besides idealistic ones to despise the western world.
- joering2 13y ago
  Osama Ibn Laden has equally to do with 9/11 as you or me with Boston Bombing. Well, that's overstatement, but here are some facts for you to digest: - Osama never took responsibility for 911. His multiple speeches he gave recorded in caves after 911 were incorrectly translated and heavily redacted for political purposes. E was just perfect to be framed. Anyone speaking Laden's language can hear him speaking that his family were doing business with Bush family (proven fact) for decades and he would never be competent to carry such an attack. Unfortunately, most videos of him speaking without overlapping loud audio vanished and any translation you find you can barely hear his native language. But you can find interview with people that were asked to translate his words ad they were pretty angry that everything got twisted. - ibn Laden was on FBI top list but never for 911. As far as I remember he was most wanted for some huge oil fraud he performed while his family did work with Bushes.