2 ms·

> I will for this comment ignore the very real problem of loads on grids that weren't designed for this, e.g. blowing transformers by using them at night when t

> I will for this comment ignore the very real problem of loads on grids that weren't designed for this, e.g. blowing transformers by using them at night when they need to cool down I know this isn't part of your central thesis, but this comment really doesn't pass the sniff test. Yes, transformers generate massive amounts of heat, but I've never heard of the need for a cool down period at night. Do you have any additional information? > I don't follow this field; is it that obvious costs will go down for these high performance (at least as claimed in the article) battery packs? Well, certainly no one is talking about increasing prices. If you look in to the projected costs of LiIon batteries over time, the majority of the analysis suggests that the prices will continue to go down. The disagreement is over how much. Some say they're going to plummet, but most agree that cost reductions will fall in a moderately-significant range. McKinsey & Co published a decent report that disaggregated LIB pricing in to 40 components, and analyzed each of them for potential future savings. That's a pretty thorough breakdown. http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/energy_resources_materials/battery_technology_charges_ahead http://www.mckinsey.com/insights/energy_resources_materials/...

hga 13y ago
I've read the transformer problem is one that California utilities are already addressing, as in as few as one or two charging at night could blow out a neighborhood transformer. Do a search such as https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+vehicles+california+transformer+cooling+night https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+vehicles+california...; that eventually got me to the article I remember reading, appropriately published in IEEE's Spectrum http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/speed-bumps-ahead-for-electricvehicle-charging http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/speed-bump...: "Speed Bumps Ahead for Electric-Vehicle Charging "Plugging in cars, even overnight, will strain local grids and could boost pollution "Turning on two or three Level 2 chargers could burn out the street-level transformers that are the distribution grid's weakest link. Most utilities employ undersized transformers, which are designed to cool overnight. Without time to cool, sustained excess current will eventually cook a transformer's copper windings, causing a short and blacking out the local loads it serves." Note that the usual suspects have made it impossible to run one of California's two nuclear power plants: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5846188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5846188
- bradleyland 13y ago
  > I've read the transformer problem is one that California utilities are already addressing, as in as few as one or two charging at night could blow out a neighborhood transformer. Be very careful who you trust on these issues. A typical level 2 charger is 30 amps by 220 VDC. That's 6600 watts. That's the equivalent of four standard 120 VDC, 15 amp household circuits. If two people using level 2 chargers would blow out a neighborhood transformer, there are significant design flaws with the local infrastructure, and the utility company has set themselves up for failure. I'm not saying the increase in the number of EVs charging at night won't cause any problems at all, but utilities are heavily regulated. They have to provide reasons for rate increases, and this looks like a honey pot for them. Expect them to shout about it at the top of their lungs.
  - bradleyland 13y ago
    * Correction, 110 VDC, 15 amp household circuits

hga 13y ago

I've read the transformer problem is one that California utilities are already addressing, as in as few as one or two charging at night could blow out a neighborhood transformer. Do a search such as https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+vehicles+california+transformer+cooling+night https://www.google.com/search?q=electric+vehicles+california...; that eventually got me to the article I remember reading, appropriately published in IEEE's Spectrum http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/speed-bumps-ahead-for-electricvehicle-charging http://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech/advanced-cars/speed-bump...: "Speed Bumps Ahead for Electric-Vehicle Charging "Plugging in cars, even overnight, will strain local grids and could boost pollution "Turning on two or three Level 2 chargers could burn out the street-level transformers that are the distribution grid's weakest link. Most utilities employ undersized transformers, which are designed to cool overnight. Without time to cool, sustained excess current will eventually cook a transformer's copper windings, causing a short and blacking out the local loads it serves." Note that the usual suspects have made it impossible to run one of California's two nuclear power plants: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5846188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5846188

bradleyland 13y ago
> I've read the transformer problem is one that California utilities are already addressing, as in as few as one or two charging at night could blow out a neighborhood transformer. Be very careful who you trust on these issues. A typical level 2 charger is 30 amps by 220 VDC. That's 6600 watts. That's the equivalent of four standard 120 VDC, 15 amp household circuits. If two people using level 2 chargers would blow out a neighborhood transformer, there are significant design flaws with the local infrastructure, and the utility company has set themselves up for failure. I'm not saying the increase in the number of EVs charging at night won't cause any problems at all, but utilities are heavily regulated. They have to provide reasons for rate increases, and this looks like a honey pot for them. Expect them to shout about it at the top of their lungs.
- bradleyland 13y ago
  * Correction, 110 VDC, 15 amp household circuits