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Greenwald replies to a Twitter user asking "when do we see the full redacted deck?" "@markskogan @nycsouthpaw You won't - it contains very specific technical NS

Greenwald replies to a Twitter user asking "when do we see the full redacted deck?" "@markskogan @nycsouthpaw You won't - it contains very specific technical NSA means for collection - we'd probably be prosecuted if we did." - https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/343454484917280770 https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/343454484917280770 Everyone should be keeping their eye on @ggreenwald's twitter, reveals much about the debate and what's going on with him. He gives bits and pieces of background info..

mpyne 13y ago
Greenwald of all people should just redact and spill it. He's under no legal bar toward publishing that material (OBVIOUSLY, as he's already published TS) and he can simply redact anything he's that worried about. By Greenwald's own logic I shouldn't have to "just trust him" either, no? Be transparent, spill the beans! Or is there an ulterior motive?
- detcader 13y ago
  The Guardian as a news outlet could be prosecuted/gone after for releasing certain things. It isn't just him making the decisions. On Twitter he seems to express the desire to release as much as he can without earning himself a Disappearance; I feel that once this is all over, he might just release the docs the Guardian won't publish somehow.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    Neither the Guardian nor Greenwald are "read in" to the U.S. national security information apparatus. They literally have no legal requirement to avoid publishing what they have. As far as being Disappeared, even Greenwald can't possibly be that dumb, can he? If he has information that the NSA would want to remove him for, and he hasn't already deleted it, it is by far in NSA's best interests to "disappear him" right now. If they wouldn't find it politically possible to disappear him now then it wouldn't be politically possible to disappear him then. Does he just think he's going to string NSA along and that they're simultaneously angry enough to kill him and dumb enough to let him choose to leak it after all? The very fact that you (and surely many others) feel that Greenwald might release this "super sensitive material" later should be all the reasoning you need to understand why NSA will have to remove him now or not remove him at all. Obviously I'm saying the latter will happen, but this means that Greenwald is acting like a tinfoil-hat conspiracy nutter. Hell, even if the former will happen Greenwald is acting like a nutter; his logic is all wrong even for the world he thinks he lives in. Once he releases the information he can pose no further risk to NSA for now, which would make harming him far more politically damaging (as it would be revenge, and not to protect further disclosure). I don't think he's stringing NSA along at all, I think he's stringing the rest of us along.
    - detcader 13y ago
      Check again: The Guardian US is an American LLC. [1] It would be in their best interest to disappear him ASAP? Maybe that's why The Atlantic's Washington Editor-at-Large just tweeted that he overheard four government officials on a plane (I believe that's where he was) discussing loudly that the leakers and Greenwald should be "disappeared". [2] He recorded the conversation and is getting together an article as we type. Greenwald has been writing on NSA abuses and other government fraud and corruption for years. He poses a (the biggest) threat ideologically and now he is a source that leakers can release actual classified information through, if they want. He is obviously very thorough with what he has been doing; he had his computer physically rigged (in the sense of software and probably hardware too) to allow for most secure communications by "someone familiar with those matters" who came to his house to do it for him. He's probably in Hong Kong for safety reasons, or at least reasons related to this story. Who else can travel to Hong Kong at will just to leak stuff? Try reading his actual articles and Twitter posts. He doesn't actually fear disappearing, he fears being sought-after or... I don't know, maybe he doesn't fear anything from acting alone and will release it all himself later! I just interpreted what I have read, "earning [myself] a Disappearance" is not a quote from him at all. If you care that much about Greenwald, might want to read the Frequently Told Lies list he has compiled [3] so you don't get tripped up. He usually lives in Brazil but pays U.S. taxes as an American citizen (which is what he is, more than most of us). He can not move because the U.S. does not recognize bi-national same-sex partnerships upon immigration. [1] http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Guardian-News/1127261.htm http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Guardian-News/1127261... [2] https://twitter.com/SCClemons/status/343392529913356289 https://twitter.com/SCClemons/status/343392529913356289 [3] http://ggsidedocs.blogspot.com.br/2013/01/frequently-told-lies-ftls.html http://ggsidedocs.blogspot.com.br/2013/01/frequently-told-li...
      - mpyne 13y ago
        It doesn't matter that the Guardian is an American LLC. If you walked up to some dude on the street, who hasn't already agreed to protect NSI, give him a confidential sheet, he's under no legal obligation to protect it (though, see below). That's one of the surreal effects of our 1st Amendment rights is that for whatever reason J. Random Citizen (and especially the press) are not bound by classification requirements (with the exception of actual national defense information such as war plans, military designs, etc.) unless they've already agreed to be. So is Greenwald sitting on military secrets? If so he'll never be able to disclose it, so there's no point mentioning it. If not he could disclose it today, if he felt like it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_United_States#Claims_of_U.S._government_misuse_of_the_classification_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_U...

mpyne 13y ago

Greenwald of all people should just redact and spill it. He's under no legal bar toward publishing that material (OBVIOUSLY, as he's already published TS) and he can simply redact anything he's that worried about. By Greenwald's own logic I shouldn't have to "just trust him" either, no? Be transparent, spill the beans! Or is there an ulterior motive?

detcader 13y ago
The Guardian as a news outlet could be prosecuted/gone after for releasing certain things. It isn't just him making the decisions. On Twitter he seems to express the desire to release as much as he can without earning himself a Disappearance; I feel that once this is all over, he might just release the docs the Guardian won't publish somehow.
- mpyne 13y ago
  Neither the Guardian nor Greenwald are "read in" to the U.S. national security information apparatus. They literally have no legal requirement to avoid publishing what they have. As far as being Disappeared, even Greenwald can't possibly be that dumb, can he? If he has information that the NSA would want to remove him for, and he hasn't already deleted it, it is by far in NSA's best interests to "disappear him" right now. If they wouldn't find it politically possible to disappear him now then it wouldn't be politically possible to disappear him then. Does he just think he's going to string NSA along and that they're simultaneously angry enough to kill him and dumb enough to let him choose to leak it after all? The very fact that you (and surely many others) feel that Greenwald might release this "super sensitive material" later should be all the reasoning you need to understand why NSA will have to remove him now or not remove him at all. Obviously I'm saying the latter will happen, but this means that Greenwald is acting like a tinfoil-hat conspiracy nutter. Hell, even if the former will happen Greenwald is acting like a nutter; his logic is all wrong even for the world he thinks he lives in. Once he releases the information he can pose no further risk to NSA for now, which would make harming him far more politically damaging (as it would be revenge, and not to protect further disclosure). I don't think he's stringing NSA along at all, I think he's stringing the rest of us along.
  - detcader 13y ago
    Check again: The Guardian US is an American LLC. [1] It would be in their best interest to disappear him ASAP? Maybe that's why The Atlantic's Washington Editor-at-Large just tweeted that he overheard four government officials on a plane (I believe that's where he was) discussing loudly that the leakers and Greenwald should be "disappeared". [2] He recorded the conversation and is getting together an article as we type. Greenwald has been writing on NSA abuses and other government fraud and corruption for years. He poses a (the biggest) threat ideologically and now he is a source that leakers can release actual classified information through, if they want. He is obviously very thorough with what he has been doing; he had his computer physically rigged (in the sense of software and probably hardware too) to allow for most secure communications by "someone familiar with those matters" who came to his house to do it for him. He's probably in Hong Kong for safety reasons, or at least reasons related to this story. Who else can travel to Hong Kong at will just to leak stuff? Try reading his actual articles and Twitter posts. He doesn't actually fear disappearing, he fears being sought-after or... I don't know, maybe he doesn't fear anything from acting alone and will release it all himself later! I just interpreted what I have read, "earning [myself] a Disappearance" is not a quote from him at all. If you care that much about Greenwald, might want to read the Frequently Told Lies list he has compiled [3] so you don't get tripped up. He usually lives in Brazil but pays U.S. taxes as an American citizen (which is what he is, more than most of us). He can not move because the U.S. does not recognize bi-national same-sex partnerships upon immigration. [1] http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Guardian-News/1127261.htm http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Guardian-News/1127261... [2] https://twitter.com/SCClemons/status/343392529913356289 https://twitter.com/SCClemons/status/343392529913356289 [3] http://ggsidedocs.blogspot.com.br/2013/01/frequently-told-lies-ftls.html http://ggsidedocs.blogspot.com.br/2013/01/frequently-told-li...
    - mpyne 13y ago
      It doesn't matter that the Guardian is an American LLC. If you walked up to some dude on the street, who hasn't already agreed to protect NSI, give him a confidential sheet, he's under no legal obligation to protect it (though, see below). That's one of the surreal effects of our 1st Amendment rights is that for whatever reason J. Random Citizen (and especially the press) are not bound by classification requirements (with the exception of actual national defense information such as war plans, military designs, etc.) unless they've already agreed to be. So is Greenwald sitting on military secrets? If so he'll never be able to disclose it, so there's no point mentioning it. If not he could disclose it today, if he felt like it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_United_States#Claims_of_U.S._government_misuse_of_the_classification_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_U...