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That's pretty hillarious. But still I think it is useful when you offend a person to try to understand why. If there's something to it, then you apologize, an

by joecode 17y ago

That's pretty hillarious. But still I think it is useful when you offend a person to try to understand why. If there's something to it, then you apologize, and learn a lesson. But if you apologize wihtout learning anything, your apology is an empty one. Meanwhile, if they're just being hyper-sensitive for no good reason, I am quite happy to pop their bubble.

mechanical_fish 17y ago
if you apologize wihtout learning anything, your apology is an empty one. Not at all. The apology -- which one should issue immediately and without hesitation -- is full of meaning. Very important meaning. Just not literal meaning. What is the apology saying? "I hear you and I understand that you were really offended." "I am trying to listen to you." "I am not trying to hurt you on purpose." "I am not trying to deliberately start a giant flame war that tears our community apart." "I am open to reconsidering what I said, and the way I said it, in light of your interpretation of my words." "I have basic social skills and recognize the role of Apologizer when I see it." (See: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=240170 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=240170 ) What the apology is not: An admission of guilt, an admission that you did something illegal or even something wrong. You do not have to break down in tears. You don't have to agree with the complainer. You don't have to change your mind. What you have to do is signal some sympathy: That you're a civilized person who is open to "trying to understand" the offended person. That you want to de-escalate the situation rather than start a fight. That you're not a troll -- that is, someone who (a) deliberately introduces a topic that is likely to be offensive and then (b) continues to push the buttons of any offended people until a giant flame war breaks out.
- joecode 17y ago
  There's some truth to that, of course. But I don't think apologies should always be issued, in any circumstances. Coddling people is often annoying. It slows things down and keeps people from being direct with one another. Sometimes a fight is actually better. Also, a little bit of confrontation keeps people from raising too many spurious complaints. Which method works better all depends on the circumstances, I guess.

by joecode 17y ago

mechanical_fish 17y ago

if you apologize wihtout learning anything, your apology is an empty one. Not at all. The apology -- which one should issue immediately and without hesitation -- is full of meaning. Very important meaning. Just not literal meaning. What is the apology saying? "I hear you and I understand that you were really offended." "I am trying to listen to you." "I am not trying to hurt you on purpose." "I am not trying to deliberately start a giant flame war that tears our community apart." "I am open to reconsidering what I said, and the way I said it, in light of your interpretation of my words." "I have basic social skills and recognize the role of Apologizer when I see it." (See: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=240170 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=240170 ) What the apology is not: An admission of guilt, an admission that you did something illegal or even something wrong. You do not have to break down in tears. You don't have to agree with the complainer. You don't have to change your mind. What you have to do is signal some sympathy: That you're a civilized person who is open to "trying to understand" the offended person. That you want to de-escalate the situation rather than start a fight. That you're not a troll -- that is, someone who (a) deliberately introduces a topic that is likely to be offensive and then (b) continues to push the buttons of any offended people until a giant flame war breaks out.

joecode 17y ago
There's some truth to that, of course. But I don't think apologies should always be issued, in any circumstances. Coddling people is often annoying. It slows things down and keeps people from being direct with one another. Sometimes a fight is actually better. Also, a little bit of confrontation keeps people from raising too many spurious complaints. Which method works better all depends on the circumstances, I guess.