4 ms·
Here a few examples of how citizens are treated in the United States: Cameron D'Ambrosio - held in jail for weeks without bail for posting rap lyrics the gover
by agwa 13y ago
Here a few examples of how citizens are treated in the United States:
Cameron D'Ambrosio - held in jail for weeks without bail for posting rap lyrics the government found offensive. [http://cms.fightforthefuture.org/teenager/ http://cms.fightforthefuture.org/teenager/]
Peaceful Occupy protesters - subjected to beatings and pepper-spraying at point blank range [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper-spray_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper-spray_incident]. (Note that no one was actually run over by a tank in China; OTOH, the US has the legacy of the Kent State Massacre [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings]. ETA: there have been worse massacres of protesters elsewhere, but the point is that the US is not exempt from this.)
Bradley Manning - held for nine months in solitary confinement under conditions that at times could only be described as torture: naked and without his eye glasses, permitted to read or watch TV for only one hour a day, not permitted to exercise. [http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/manning-treatment-inhuman/ http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/manning-treatment-i...], [http://solitarywatch.com/2012/08/11/defense-motion-describes-bradley-mannings-unlawful-pretrial-punishment-in-solitary-confinement/ http://solitarywatch.com/2012/08/11/defense-motion-describes...]
North-west anarchists - accused of no wrongdoing but refused to testify for a grand jury. Held in contempt of court and sent directly to jail. Spent 5 months in jail, much of it in solitary confinement during which they were permitted no visitors and had only one 15 minute phone call a month and limited access to reading and writing materials. According to the judge who both sent them there and then released them, "their physical health has deteriorated sharply and their mental health has also suffered from the effects of solitary confinement." [https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4hDq2p2PpMKRDRDQzViLWJTUmc/edit?pli=1 https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4hDq2p2PpMKRDRDQzViLWJTUmc/...]
None of these people are even suspected terrorists. What they share in common is that they did things the government didn't like.
As for suspected terrorists, they are not guaranteed due process. See Jose Padilla [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_%28prisoner%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_%28prisoner%...]: U.S. citizen, held from 2002 to 2006 as an "enemy combatant" and denied due process. Finally transferred to civilian court and convicted anyways, showing that criminal defendants do not get off on "technicalities" as you claim. Look up "harmless error analysis" if you want to learn the truth about "technicalities."
The United States is not exceptional, and we need to stop pretending that it is.
- dragonwriter 13y ago> Note that no one was actually run over by a tank in China; OTOH, the US has the legacy of the Kent State Massacre No protestor was run over by a tank at Kent State, either; OTOH, China has the legacy of the Tiananmen Square Massacre, in which at least (even by the official government counts) 50 times as many civilians were killed as at Kent State.
- agwa 13y agoYou're right. The point is that protesters are killed in the US too.
- abecedarius 13y agoThe guy standing before of a column of tanks in the famous photo, he got run over by a different tank not long after. Or so I read the other day on the anniversary of the massacre. (I support your overall point.)
- dredmorbius 13y agoTo the best of my knowledge, he's never been definitively identified, nor his fate established: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man
- abecedarius 13y agoThanks -- I was feeling a little guilty about passing that on unchecked.
- omegaham 13y agoI do agree with most of your points, but I wouldn't say that Bradley Manning was tortured. Suicide watch in prison is meant to keep the person alive, not to be nice. He was in solitary confinement for his own protection, (general population would have killed him, which would have been a far, far worse public relations fiasco) and then threatened to kill himself. I would say that the restrictions placed on him were overly harsh, but people have tried to hang themselves with their clothes and blankets before. Just to give another perspective - say you're in charge of the prison that Bradley Manning is held at. He's in a very fragile state of mind and is facing life without parole. If he gets treated too poorly, then it's your ass. But if you give him too much freedom, then he could use that opportunity to kill himself. That being said, the US is not exceptional about this. But I'd much rather be in the US than many other countries if I were charged with terrorism.