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Yours in distress, Alan
- jmduke 13y agoQuoted for emphasis: Turing believes machines think / Turing lies with men / Therefore machines do not think Society can be sometimes wonderful, and sometimes so incredibly terrible.
- cobrausn 13y agoFor what it's worth, it was a fear of his that this might come to pass, and I think anyone making an argument like that would be (rightly) dismissed as a loon.
- roguecoder 13y agoThough the same argument was used against Keynes earlier this year by Niall Ferguson.
- cobrausn 13y agoTrue, but he was called out for it and that viewpoint is considered loony. It prompted an apology from him.
- guard-of-terra 13y agoBy default it's terrible. You have to make conscious choices; ones that not only altruistic for you but also a bit dangerous for you; in order to attain some kind of wonderfulless. Once the society settled on "grab all" or "protect all good from all bad", it degrades into a pile of terrible.
- enlore 13y agoi'd like to think we've gotten past this kind of shit, but my senses tell me we've yet a ways to go. RIP AT. everthing i've read suggests he was a really nice man.
- paul_f 13y agoThis was 70 years ago, I think we're past it
- jimhefferon 13y agoIt will come back, given half a chance. Sadly, progress must be defended as vigorously as it is won.
- graue 13y agoHomosexuality is no longer persecuted as a crime in the industrialized Western world. However, if by "past it" you mean homophobia no longer exists or is not significant enough to worry about — absolutely not. This story of horrific treatment of gay teens in Anoka, Minnesota, near where I used to live, comes to mind: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/one-towns-war-on-gay-teens-20120202 http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/one-towns-war-on-g...
- ecopoesis 13y ago41 US states don't allow same sex marriage. In 2012, we had a serious presidential candidate (Michelle Bachmann) who runs a "gay conversion therapy" business. We are not past this at all.
- jgrahamc 13y agohttp://25.media.tumblr.com/7b17076580461a288bccd99b2118057c/tumblr_mirg34g9pE1qzyty1o1_1280.png http://25.media.tumblr.com/7b17076580461a288bccd99b2118057c/...
- babarock 13y agoAbout the whole "machines can think" debate, I love this quote by EWD: "Alan M. Turing thought about criteria to settle the question of whether Machines Can Think, a question of which we now know that it is about as relevant as the question of whether Submarines Can Swim." (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD08xx/EWD898.html http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD08xx/EW...) Let's not fall prey to the temptation of thinking: Turing believes machines think Society acted terribly towards Turing Therefore machines do think. EDIT: formatting.
- gohrt 13y agoTuring thought they think And he suffered terribly Therefore they do think
- mikeash 13y agoIt seems obvious now that: Turing was a machine Turing could think Therefore machines can think Of course, whether Turing machines can think is still more of an open question, although it seems unlikely that the human brain is doing anything a Turing machine can't simulate, at least in theory.
- jlgreco 13y agoI prefer "Can planes fly?" The Church-Turing-Deutsch Principle seems pretty uncontroversial when we ignore quantum mechanics (and remains questionable when it is considered). Add to this the lack of any evidence for any irreducible quantum requirements in the mind anyway and it seems pretty damn likely that the mind is algorithmic. Even if the CTD Principle does not hold for whatever reason, that still does not put the mind and machines on different levels. It would merely imply that machines more powerful than Turing machines can be built (the mind being an example of such a machine). Not even Roger Penrose disputes a materialistic mind.
- dokem 13y agoI don't think anyone is 'falling prey' because of what happend to Turing. What evidence is there for this?
- saidajigumi 13y agoRelated, I highly recommend seeing a performance of Breaking the Code[1] if the opportunity presents itself. It's a play about Alan Turing, dealing with events in his life from his involvement in WWII through his death. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_the_Code http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_the_Code
- 300bps 13y agoTo me the biggest thing driving acceptance of gay people is the realization that being gay is not a choice, but rather something you are born with. In a recent poll by Pew last month, 41% of the country now believes people are born gay. 8% believe it is the result of upbringing and 42% believe it is a choice. Source: http://www.people-press.org/files/legacy-pdf/06-06-13%20LGBT%20General%20Public%20Release.pdf http://www.people-press.org/files/legacy-pdf/06-06-13%20LGBT... To those that believe it's a choice, the natural question is, "When did you choose to be straight?" For me, I knew I was attracted to the opposite sex as early as 5 or 6. I didn't make a choice. Nobody makes a choice. You're attracted to who you're attracted to. If anyone says that is not the case, ask them at what age they chose their sexual orientation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S14VRjVDPcs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S14VRjVDPcs
- pubb 13y agoGive this clip about 5 minutes, it's a pretty good explanation of sexual orientation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCNgknc7Qv8&t=45m52s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCNgknc7Qv8&t=45m52s The entire series of lectures is excellent if you thought this was insightful.
- parsnips 13y agoSo what do you think about pre-natal testing for gay gene?
- 300bps 13y ago>So what do you think about pre-natal testing for gay gene? First I have to say that I'm unaware of a "gay gene". It may exist, it may not. There are plenty of mechanisms that could lead to being born gay without a gay gene. As one possibility, refer to: >Temperature-dependent sex determination (TSD) is a type of environmental sex determination in which the temperatures experienced during embryonic development determine the sex of the offspring.[1] It is most prevalent and common among amniote vertebrates that are classified under the reptile class, Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature-dependent_sex_determination http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature-dependent_sex_deter... Sure, this doesn't pertain to humans but it would not be surprising to me that other non-gene influencers might cause someone to be gay before birth. Having gotten that out of the way, I would be against any kind of testing for anything but the most critical gene defects. Anyone that thinks we should test for all gene defects should check out www.23andme.com. You'll discover (like I did) that the average person has several gene defects that can shorten their life and be passed on to their offspring. Trying to breed these out of humans would mean most people alive today wouldn't be alive today.
- spitx 13y ago"Chemical castration is the administration of medication designed to reduce libido and sexual activity. Unlike surgical castration, where the testicles or ovaries are removed through an incision in the body, chemical castration does not actually castrate the person, nor is it a form of sterilization." "Chemical castration is generally considered reversible when treatment is discontinued, although permanent effects in body chemistry can sometimes be seen, as in the case of bone density loss increasing with length of use of Depo Provera. Chemical castration has, from time to time, been used as an instrument of public and/or judicial policy despite concerns over human rights and possible side effects." "In the United Kingdom, computer scientist Alan Turing, famous for his contributions to mathematics and computer science, was a homosexual who chose to undergo chemical castration in order to avoid imprisonment in 1952. At the time, homosexuality was still illegal and considered to be a mental illness that could be treated with chemical castration. Turing experienced side effects such as breast enlargement and bloating of the physique. He died two years later, with the inquest returning a verdict of suicide, although recent research has cast doubt on this result. In 2009, the then British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, issued a public apology for the British government's "appalling" actions, after an online petition seeking the same gained 30,000 signatures and international recognition." Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_castration#Europe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_castration#Europe "Alan Turing, the British mathematical genius and codebreaker born 100 years ago on 23 June, may not have committed suicide, as is widely believed. Turing expert Prof Jack Copeland has questioned the evidence that was presented at the 1954 inquest. He believes the evidence would not today be accepted as sufficient to establish a suicide verdict." Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18561092?print=true http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18561092?print... Edit: Added last portion.
- LowKarmaAccount 13y agoHere is the HN discussion about the BBC link https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4150495 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4150495
- binarycrusader 13y agoSomewhat related, the person to whom (presumably) the letter was addressed (Norman Routledge) recently (April 27th, 2013) passed away: http://www.kings.cam.ac.uk/news/2013/norman-routledge.html http://www.kings.cam.ac.uk/news/2013/norman-routledge.html
- chris_mahan 13y agoSounds like Haiku.
- Eva_Peron 13y agoYet another giant intellect felled by the ignorant Athenian polity.
- guard-of-terra 13y agoI see it forward that one day Churchill will be dug up, made apologies for Turing and be buried back upside down. Figuratively speaking. Geek does not forget.
- robomartin 13y agoJust goes to show you we were animals a little over fifty years ago. We still are. There are many examples of this, including the treatment of women and homosexuals in the Middle East. Humanity needs to get out of the caves before making real leaps forward. We talk about fighting poverty and hunger yet can't do a thing when faced with blatant in-your-face abuse. We respect the idea of women being mutilated, killed and having to walk under tents in public, even as immigrants in the Western World, out of respect for religion. Sad, considering the delusionary nature of all religions.
- cobrausn 13y agoYou are delusional if you think we have to look to the middle east and religion to find 'people acting like animals'. Take a look at treatment and sentencing of criminals in the west - I think in the future they will wonder how we managed to rationalize it for so long.
- rayiner 13y agoI presume he was listing things in order of the magnitude of outrage, not geographic distance from his person.
- robomartin 13y agoI just grabbed a couple of examples. Surely there's a long list that can be added to mine. Delusional? Probably.
- Wintamute 13y agoI like your second sentence, the first not so much. Where does he say you have to look at the middle east for such examples? He doesn't. Discussion on the internet is fraught enough without making things up to disagree with.
- ctz 13y agoInterestingly the house where Turing lived and died is up for sale: http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-38349665.html http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-383496... (source: you can see the plaque in the first picture, I attended the unveiling at this house)