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'If someone doesn't like the way Rails framework or "community" is progressing, they can fork it.' This is getting a bit philosophical, but there will always b

by agola 17y ago

'If someone doesn't like the way Rails framework or "community" is progressing, they can fork it.' This is getting a bit philosophical, but there will always be differences of opinion, often strong ones, and if people are never willing to compromise for the sake of working together, at some point we'll all be forked down to one-person groups. (This applies to both sides of the debate, not just the one you or I agree with.) My point is that impulsively splitting the group, without first expressing your discontent and trying to find acceptable common ground, is probably ill advised, though initially satisfying.

plinkplonk 17y ago
"If someone doesn't like the way Rails framework or "community" is progressing, they can fork it.'" That isn't quite what I said. The complete sentence was, "If someone doesn't like the way Rails framework or "community" is progressing, they can fork it. Stop submitting patches or features. Don't use it. Write an alternative framework, possibly in another language. Just don't whine for blog post after blog post on what other people should do to conform to your notions of what is right." You say, "My point is that impulsively splitting the group, without first expressing your discontent and trying to find acceptable common ground, is probably ill advised, though initially satisfying." I agree with the "first expressing your discontent and trying to find acceptable common ground" part. That has been done, and by Batarski's comment the "leaders by example" have a taken a stance "directly opposed" to the complainants view point. DHH in particular has clearly expressed his opinion. I doubt that this kind of philosophical(dare I say "political"? ) question has any "right" or "wrong" answers. Depends too much on what your initial assumptions are. "if people are never willing to compromise for the sake of working together" Different people have different notions of what is compromisable and what is not. It seems that to DHH, putting "porn" into slides in a presentation at a Rails conf is not worth discussing or compromising on. All I am saying is, the opinions are all on the table, and I don't see any movement to compromise. So get on with it. Life is too short.
- agola 17y ago
  That has been done I'll take your word for it; my point was only that forking is probably not a good first move (which was what your comment seemed to be suggesting, if only because I misread it). If the attempt to compromise is made and the agreement can't be reached, then sure, split the group. In this case it sounds like it might be appropriate.
  - plinkplonk 17y ago
    "split the group" isn't the only option. Maybe the complainers can just stop contributing to Rails (submit patches/plugins/whatever) or maybe just stop being part of the "community". Use Django. Cake. Wicket. Whatever. I am just saying that "I don't see a problem" is not some kind of statement of ultimate evil. It is a valid pov, just as "I think this is a huge problem" is. People who hold one of those opinions don't need to "sincerely apologize" to people holding the other. So yeah less demonization, more action. Please!

by agola 17y ago

plinkplonk 17y ago

"If someone doesn't like the way Rails framework or "community" is progressing, they can fork it.'" That isn't quite what I said. The complete sentence was, "If someone doesn't like the way Rails framework or "community" is progressing, they can fork it. Stop submitting patches or features. Don't use it. Write an alternative framework, possibly in another language. Just don't whine for blog post after blog post on what other people should do to conform to your notions of what is right." You say, "My point is that impulsively splitting the group, without first expressing your discontent and trying to find acceptable common ground, is probably ill advised, though initially satisfying." I agree with the "first expressing your discontent and trying to find acceptable common ground" part. That has been done, and by Batarski's comment the "leaders by example" have a taken a stance "directly opposed" to the complainants view point. DHH in particular has clearly expressed his opinion. I doubt that this kind of philosophical(dare I say "political"? ) question has any "right" or "wrong" answers. Depends too much on what your initial assumptions are. "if people are never willing to compromise for the sake of working together" Different people have different notions of what is compromisable and what is not. It seems that to DHH, putting "porn" into slides in a presentation at a Rails conf is not worth discussing or compromising on. All I am saying is, the opinions are all on the table, and I don't see any movement to compromise. So get on with it. Life is too short.

agola 17y ago
That has been done I'll take your word for it; my point was only that forking is probably not a good first move (which was what your comment seemed to be suggesting, if only because I misread it). If the attempt to compromise is made and the agreement can't be reached, then sure, split the group. In this case it sounds like it might be appropriate.
- plinkplonk 17y ago
  "split the group" isn't the only option. Maybe the complainers can just stop contributing to Rails (submit patches/plugins/whatever) or maybe just stop being part of the "community". Use Django. Cake. Wicket. Whatever. I am just saying that "I don't see a problem" is not some kind of statement of ultimate evil. It is a valid pov, just as "I think this is a huge problem" is. People who hold one of those opinions don't need to "sincerely apologize" to people holding the other. So yeah less demonization, more action. Please!