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You're half-right. People should be able to express their ideas and thoughts in a manner that they feel most comfortable with, even if that included nudie pictu

You're half-right. People should be able to express their ideas and thoughts in a manner that they feel most comfortable with, even if that included nudie pictures. However, you cannot say that there should be no outrage had the presenter used offensive terms towards other races. You must understand that women feel the same way as people of colour, especially when it comes to professional conduct. I'm not saying that no one should be offended and therefore the boundaries should never be pushed. However, there are right ways to do it and there are wrong ones. The reaction from DHH is in exact opposition to that of those who felt offended. Let me repeat that, exact opposition. He said on Twitter how there should be more porn in presentations and how images of semi-nude women are more acceptable than images of ninja cats. Would he have said the same if the presentation contained racially offensive terminology? Who knows? That's what is so disconcerting. EDIT: > DHH for one obviously doesn't care what other people think, and I respect the man for being consistent in his beliefs and not backing down before people trying to lay some pc guilt trip on him. Sorry, meant to say more here. His reaction, at least to me, wasn't one of "I don't care what people think" as much as it was a big "Fuck you and your beliefs" to those who didn't feel how he felt about the slides. And the people he said a virtual "Fuck you" are contributors to the community, be it knowledge contributors or, as in Mike's case, promoters of HIS framework. What reaction would you expect people to have?

plinkplonk 17y ago
@batarski, "you cannot say that there should be no outrage " That isn't what I said. Anyone can choose to be offended and base their actions on their outrage (including leaving Rails, forking Rails , whatever).. That doesn't mean (a) they are right and the "offender" is wrong (b) even if they are offended, the offender should "apologize sincerely". "The reaction from DHH is in exact opposition to that of those who felt offended. Let me repeat that, exact opposition. " Why is that wrong? It is just an opinion he (like all of us) has. If he genuinely feels that he is right it doesn't matter what the degree of opposition is. He should live by his notion of what is right and stick to his view point and suffer any consequences. He has done exactly that. Of course that forces the rest of the rails "community" to decide what to do. " Would he have said the same if the presentation contained racially offensive terminology?" This is a hypothetical situation. When it happens we can deal with it. Till then let us react to what did happen and give everyone the freedom to think how he wants to think . It is the blanket condemnation of an opinion for being politically incorrect that I oppose. EDIT : to respond to batarski's edit "His reaction, at least to me, wasn't one of "I don't care what people think" as much as it was a big "Fuck you and your beliefs" to those who didn't feel how he felt about the slides." Sure, that s one way to interpret his reaction and probably valid. My point is that DHH has always been like that. He does what he thinks is right and if a community forms around his code that is great but he couldn't care less if there weren't a community. He has always said that he writes Rails for himself. In other words DHH is consistent. You may not agree with his opinions (I don't always) but I am surprised at why people find his reaction so surprising? He has never played the political correctness game and has revelled in thinking for himself and acting on his convictions. So? Way are people so surprised and horrified now? I predicted his reaction the moment I saw the original post. And I am not sure it is wrong. As to what I expect other people to do, I listed those options above. Rails is Open Source code. MIT licensed I believe. you can do whatever you want with it, including forking it.
- deleted 17y ago
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- jordyhoyt 17y ago
  How is ANY of this relevant to Rails, though? Of course he has the right to say what he wants and think how he wants to think, but why does that need to come anywhere near a presentation on Rails? I like to play the piano, but I'm not going to bust out a keyboard in the middle of a team meeting. Not because it is inappropriate, but because it is completely off-topic, a distraction, and a waste of time. It's irrelevant, so I have to conclude that it was used to provoke a reaction. This is what makes forking such a ridiculous notion, if we are going to fork for every ideological disagreement, it will die the same death denominational churches are dying today. When you fork on something that doesn't matter to your common goal, everyone fails.

plinkplonk 17y ago

@batarski, "you cannot say that there should be no outrage " That isn't what I said. Anyone can choose to be offended and base their actions on their outrage (including leaving Rails, forking Rails , whatever).. That doesn't mean (a) they are right and the "offender" is wrong (b) even if they are offended, the offender should "apologize sincerely". "The reaction from DHH is in exact opposition to that of those who felt offended. Let me repeat that, exact opposition. " Why is that wrong? It is just an opinion he (like all of us) has. If he genuinely feels that he is right it doesn't matter what the degree of opposition is. He should live by his notion of what is right and stick to his view point and suffer any consequences. He has done exactly that. Of course that forces the rest of the rails "community" to decide what to do. " Would he have said the same if the presentation contained racially offensive terminology?" This is a hypothetical situation. When it happens we can deal with it. Till then let us react to what did happen and give everyone the freedom to think how he wants to think . It is the blanket condemnation of an opinion for being politically incorrect that I oppose. EDIT : to respond to batarski's edit "His reaction, at least to me, wasn't one of "I don't care what people think" as much as it was a big "Fuck you and your beliefs" to those who didn't feel how he felt about the slides." Sure, that s one way to interpret his reaction and probably valid. My point is that DHH has always been like that. He does what he thinks is right and if a community forms around his code that is great but he couldn't care less if there weren't a community. He has always said that he writes Rails for himself. In other words DHH is consistent. You may not agree with his opinions (I don't always) but I am surprised at why people find his reaction so surprising? He has never played the political correctness game and has revelled in thinking for himself and acting on his convictions. So? Way are people so surprised and horrified now? I predicted his reaction the moment I saw the original post. And I am not sure it is wrong. As to what I expect other people to do, I listed those options above. Rails is Open Source code. MIT licensed I believe. you can do whatever you want with it, including forking it.

deleted 17y ago
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jordyhoyt 17y ago
How is ANY of this relevant to Rails, though? Of course he has the right to say what he wants and think how he wants to think, but why does that need to come anywhere near a presentation on Rails? I like to play the piano, but I'm not going to bust out a keyboard in the middle of a team meeting. Not because it is inappropriate, but because it is completely off-topic, a distraction, and a waste of time. It's irrelevant, so I have to conclude that it was used to provoke a reaction. This is what makes forking such a ridiculous notion, if we are going to fork for every ideological disagreement, it will die the same death denominational churches are dying today. When you fork on something that doesn't matter to your common goal, everyone fails.