4 ms·

This really is the way to stop this. Support representatives like Mark Udall and Ron Wyden and vote everyone who's supporting PATRIOT and warrantless wiretappin

This really is the way to stop this. Support representatives like Mark Udall and Ron Wyden and vote everyone who's supporting PATRIOT and warrantless wiretapping out of office. Civil liberties should be as big of an issue (if not bigger) during elections as the economy.

azov 13y ago
>Civil liberties should be as big of an issue (if not bigger) during elections as the economy. This. Fixing broken economy takes years. Fixing broken civil liberties takes decades, if not centuries.
- rhizome 13y ago
  It doesn't have to be the kind of reform that takes decades: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968 I think you may be referring to changes that preserve current power and political structures, but that's not required.
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    I can't help observing that de Gaulle's party actually increased its parliamentary majority to record levels in the election that took place in June 1968; it signalled the beginning of the end of De Gaulle's political career but institutionally the protests were a total bust.
drivebyacct2 13y ago
"Civil liberties should be as big of an issue (if not bigger) during elections as the economy." I laughed, because I can't even bring myself to make statements like that anymore.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  What is civil liberty? Whats wrong with the economy? Meh. What's my tax break? Welcome to New Zealand.
bilbo0s 13y ago
Easy to say... Hard to do... The original PATRIOT Act passed the Senate by a vote of 99 to 1 I think. The Senator from Wisconsin was the only one to vote against it. Feingold I believe. He was replaced by a more "law and order" type Senator. I still think to this day it was because he threw wrenches into all of these programs whenever he had a chance. (And sometimes even if he didn't have a chance, he would sabotage the machinery.) The thing is ... the people of Wisconsin voted him out. Now you can argue that they didn't understand what they were doing... but you can't argue the vote. And this illustrates the problem. In a nutshell... There is little political profit in fighting these programs. THAT, is what we need to find some way to change. EDIT: BTW, just a point of fact I think may be relevant here... Wyden voted YEA for the PATRIOT Act. Just Sayin'.
- suredo 13y ago
  http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim.html http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_t...
- mr_spothawk 13y ago
  http://educate-yourself.org/cn/patriotact20012006senatevote.shtml http://educate-yourself.org/cn/patriotact20012006senatevote....
prollyignored 13y ago
* Stop the wars * Stop the spying * Save the children Blah blah ... The terrorists will persist. Globe trotting capitalist crisis will persist. Radical ideologies don't die, easily.The problem is Action <-> Reaction. You spit on me, I plot revenge. What will happen after another deeply painful attack ? Everyone usually just hand-waves and says "Do something !" This is when american hypocrisy is updated to 11.0. "I want to be comfortable ! They are the idiots, kill them ! I don't care who ! Don't tell me how, Just do it ! Don't bother me, I need to workout ! I want to bang this person you see ... " So, faux laws are created, damage is done, lives are saved, movies are made, everyone feels icky about the new laws and then we get new presidents and new laws like new muffins. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
neaanopri 13y ago
I think that if this Senator had publicly and openly leaked the documents, he'd be very difficult to prosecute(no jury would convict him), and arresting a US senator would be so much of an overreach by the NSA that it couldn't survive. It's just a pity nobody on the intelligence committee has the backbone ti stand up for their constituents.
scrabble 13y ago
They should be, but often people vote on party lines regardless of vote history. Sure, some people may look into vote history, but not the majority.

azov 13y ago

>Civil liberties should be as big of an issue (if not bigger) during elections as the economy. This. Fixing broken economy takes years. Fixing broken civil liberties takes decades, if not centuries.

rhizome 13y ago
It doesn't have to be the kind of reform that takes decades: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968 I think you may be referring to changes that preserve current power and political structures, but that's not required.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  I can't help observing that de Gaulle's party actually increased its parliamentary majority to record levels in the election that took place in June 1968; it signalled the beginning of the end of De Gaulle's political career but institutionally the protests were a total bust.

drivebyacct2 13y ago

"Civil liberties should be as big of an issue (if not bigger) during elections as the economy." I laughed, because I can't even bring myself to make statements like that anymore.

lostlogin 13y ago
What is civil liberty? Whats wrong with the economy? Meh. What's my tax break? Welcome to New Zealand.

bilbo0s 13y ago

Easy to say... Hard to do... The original PATRIOT Act passed the Senate by a vote of 99 to 1 I think. The Senator from Wisconsin was the only one to vote against it. Feingold I believe. He was replaced by a more "law and order" type Senator. I still think to this day it was because he threw wrenches into all of these programs whenever he had a chance. (And sometimes even if he didn't have a chance, he would sabotage the machinery.) The thing is ... the people of Wisconsin voted him out. Now you can argue that they didn't understand what they were doing... but you can't argue the vote. And this illustrates the problem. In a nutshell... There is little political profit in fighting these programs. THAT, is what we need to find some way to change. EDIT: BTW, just a point of fact I think may be relevant here... Wyden voted YEA for the PATRIOT Act. Just Sayin'.

suredo 13y ago
http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim.html http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_t...
mr_spothawk 13y ago
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/patriotact20012006senatevote.shtml http://educate-yourself.org/cn/patriotact20012006senatevote....

prollyignored 13y ago

* Stop the wars * Stop the spying * Save the children Blah blah ... The terrorists will persist. Globe trotting capitalist crisis will persist. Radical ideologies don't die, easily.The problem is Action <-> Reaction. You spit on me, I plot revenge. What will happen after another deeply painful attack ? Everyone usually just hand-waves and says "Do something !" This is when american hypocrisy is updated to 11.0. "I want to be comfortable ! They are the idiots, kill them ! I don't care who ! Don't tell me how, Just do it ! Don't bother me, I need to workout ! I want to bang this person you see ... " So, faux laws are created, damage is done, lives are saved, movies are made, everyone feels icky about the new laws and then we get new presidents and new laws like new muffins. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

neaanopri 13y ago

I think that if this Senator had publicly and openly leaked the documents, he'd be very difficult to prosecute(no jury would convict him), and arresting a US senator would be so much of an overreach by the NSA that it couldn't survive. It's just a pity nobody on the intelligence committee has the backbone ti stand up for their constituents.

scrabble 13y ago

They should be, but often people vote on party lines regardless of vote history. Sure, some people may look into vote history, but not the majority.