6 ms·

> What's the significance of this? I cannot remember (I'm 49yo) the NYT ever going from endorsing a candidate [1] to "The administration has now lost all credi

> What's the significance of this? I cannot remember (I'm 49yo) the NYT ever going from endorsing a candidate [1] to "The administration has now lost all credibility." That's quite a fall politically. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/opinion/sunday/barack-obama-for-president.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/opinion/sunday/barack-obam... Edit: I have to agree with them, but I hold out hope that this will cause several high-profile firings in the administration.

dkulchenko 13y ago
> I hold out hope that this will cause several high-profile firings in the administration. Why would it? It's pretty obvious Obama's complicit in this - why would he fire those who are implementing policies that he's supporting?
- philwelch 13y ago
  In politics, you fire those below you to save yourself. Even if they did right by you.
  - jellicle 13y ago
    People would only be fired if this program is scandalous to the American public. All the evidence suggests that the American public doesn't mind privacy violations as long you say "child pornographer" and "terrorist" a lot when you talk about them.
    - philwelch 13y ago
      Justifications for some, sacrificial firings for others. Just like Abu Ghraib.
- jpdoctor 13y ago
  When presented with new data, some people change course. I am hoping Obama falls into that class.
  - tsotha 13y ago
    New data? Do you really think this is news to Obama?
    - cobrausn 13y ago
      Maybe the 'new data' in this case is how we react to finding out about the existence of the programs.
    - jpdoctor 13y ago
      > Do you really think this is news to Obama? Do you really think the NYT headline was known to Obama? So yes: The reaction of the populace is news. Again: Some people change course when presented with new data. While politicians and partisans rarely fall into that camp, I'm hopeful that Obama does.
      - jlgreco 13y ago
        He presumably changed course once already (when he received 'the news' that he could get away with the sort of shit he had many convinced he wouldn't do). With any luck he'll change course again with the new 'news' that the first news was wrong. However I cannot say that I am optimistic.
      - tsotha 13y ago
        So the "new data" you're talking about is the fact that he got caught? Maybe the change he'll make as a result is more secrecy instead of less of this kind of program.
  - flyinRyan 13y ago
    What will it take for Obama-ites to finally give up on the man? If you had video of him eating a baby saying "fuck america!" would that be enough, or would you still hope he could turn things around?
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Rule number one of plumbing: Shit flows downhill.
- jessaustin 13y ago
  He habitually fires inconvenient people. If they leave gracefully, like Susan Rice did, he brings them back as something else.
mullingitover 13y ago
The New York Times did not write "The administration has now lost all credibility." You made a very misleading statement. What they actually wrote was "The administration has now lost all credibility on this issue." (emphasis added) Quite a bit of difference there. Edit: apparently NYT did some hasty editing, I apologize--You didn't make any misleading statements[1]. [1] http://www.newsdiffs.org/diff/245566/245668/www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html http://www.newsdiffs.org/diff/245566/245668/www.nytimes.com/...
- fianchetto 13y ago
  The line was in an earlier edit: > "The administration has now lost all credibility." http://www.newsdiffs.org/diff/245539/245566/www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html http://www.newsdiffs.org/diff/245539/245566/www.nytimes.com/...
  - Create 13y ago
    History in the making With the deep, unconscious sigh which not even the nearness of the telescreen could prevent him from uttering when his day's work started, Winston pulled the speakwrite towards him, blew the dust from its mouthpiece, and put on his spectacles. Then he unrolled and clipped together four small cylinders of paper which had already flopped out of the pneumatic tube on the right-hand side of his desk. [...] As soon as Winston had dealt with each of the messages, he clipped his speakwritten corrections to the appropriate copy of The Times and pushed them into the pneumatic tube. Then, with a movement which was as nearly as possible unconscious, he crumpled up the original message and any notes that he himself had made, and dropped them into the memory hole to be devoured by the flames.

dkulchenko 13y ago

> I hold out hope that this will cause several high-profile firings in the administration. Why would it? It's pretty obvious Obama's complicit in this - why would he fire those who are implementing policies that he's supporting?

philwelch 13y ago
In politics, you fire those below you to save yourself. Even if they did right by you.
- jellicle 13y ago
  People would only be fired if this program is scandalous to the American public. All the evidence suggests that the American public doesn't mind privacy violations as long you say "child pornographer" and "terrorist" a lot when you talk about them.
  - philwelch 13y ago
    Justifications for some, sacrificial firings for others. Just like Abu Ghraib.
jpdoctor 13y ago
When presented with new data, some people change course. I am hoping Obama falls into that class.
- tsotha 13y ago
  New data? Do you really think this is news to Obama?
  - cobrausn 13y ago
    Maybe the 'new data' in this case is how we react to finding out about the existence of the programs.
  - jpdoctor 13y ago
    > Do you really think this is news to Obama? Do you really think the NYT headline was known to Obama? So yes: The reaction of the populace is news. Again: Some people change course when presented with new data. While politicians and partisans rarely fall into that camp, I'm hopeful that Obama does.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      He presumably changed course once already (when he received 'the news' that he could get away with the sort of shit he had many convinced he wouldn't do). With any luck he'll change course again with the new 'news' that the first news was wrong. However I cannot say that I am optimistic.
    - tsotha 13y ago
      So the "new data" you're talking about is the fact that he got caught? Maybe the change he'll make as a result is more secrecy instead of less of this kind of program.
- flyinRyan 13y ago
  What will it take for Obama-ites to finally give up on the man? If you had video of him eating a baby saying "fuck america!" would that be enough, or would you still hope he could turn things around?
jlgreco 13y ago
Rule number one of plumbing: Shit flows downhill.
jessaustin 13y ago
He habitually fires inconvenient people. If they leave gracefully, like Susan Rice did, he brings them back as something else.

mullingitover 13y ago

The New York Times did not write "The administration has now lost all credibility." You made a very misleading statement. What they actually wrote was "The administration has now lost all credibility on this issue." (emphasis added) Quite a bit of difference there. Edit: apparently NYT did some hasty editing, I apologize--You didn't make any misleading statements[1]. [1] http://www.newsdiffs.org/diff/245566/245668/www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html http://www.newsdiffs.org/diff/245566/245668/www.nytimes.com/...

fianchetto 13y ago
The line was in an earlier edit: > "The administration has now lost all credibility." http://www.newsdiffs.org/diff/245539/245566/www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/opinion/president-obamas-dragnet.html http://www.newsdiffs.org/diff/245539/245566/www.nytimes.com/...
- Create 13y ago
  History in the making With the deep, unconscious sigh which not even the nearness of the telescreen could prevent him from uttering when his day's work started, Winston pulled the speakwrite towards him, blew the dust from its mouthpiece, and put on his spectacles. Then he unrolled and clipped together four small cylinders of paper which had already flopped out of the pneumatic tube on the right-hand side of his desk. [...] As soon as Winston had dealt with each of the messages, he clipped his speakwritten corrections to the appropriate copy of The Times and pushed them into the pneumatic tube. Then, with a movement which was as nearly as possible unconscious, he crumpled up the original message and any notes that he himself had made, and dropped them into the memory hole to be devoured by the flames.