5 ms·

What sort of threats does the NSA give to these companies so they participated without any leaks? Just curious what the penalty would be if the NSA approached

by ry0ohki 13y ago

What sort of threats does the NSA give to these companies so they participated without any leaks? Just curious what the penalty would be if the NSA approached me about sucking down my user data and I refused.

yajoe 13y ago
I've been on the receiving end and posted a couple times trying to explain how it happens. In short, the NSA doesn't typically appear directly. Instead they use the courts and subpoenas to induce compliance for what seem like mundane court cases. See a previous post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5754641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5754641
vy8vWJlco 13y ago
I suspect just getting a request from a three letter agency is enough to make most CTOs and CEOs wet themselves and roll over. (Standing up against the government is not usually part of the business plan.)
- lawnchair_larry 13y ago
  That's the point of CISPA. They didn't want to fight the government, but they pushed back asking for more legal protections, especially after the AT&T warantless spying scandal broke. So, they've been trying hard to pass CISPA in order to give these CEOs more peace of mind.
olympus 13y ago
They hand out these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter You're not even supposed to reveal that you are complying (gag order). Google has been in the news recently about fighting one in court.
- rsync 13y ago
  We have been fighting this US policy since 2006: http://www.rsync.net/resources/notices/canary.txt http://www.rsync.net/resources/notices/canary.txt
  - cheald 13y ago
    Very clever. Nice hackaround.
  - mratzloff 13y ago
    "Although signing the declaration makes it impossible for a third party to produce arbitrary declarations, it does not prevent them from using force to coerce rsync.net to produce false declarations." That's kind of the point. They say, "Keep sending those updates. Otherwise you will go to federal prison." You say, "OK."
baddox 13y ago
How does any government action work? It may start clever and/or subtle, but the fundamental threat is that of violence. You will either be compelled to pay fines, have your equipment confiscated, be thrown in jail, or some combination of the three.
- LyndsySimon 13y ago
  Voluntaryist? :)
minimax 13y ago
Many many years ago I worked at an ISP and I remember getting emails of the form: From: manager@corp.com To: minimax@corp.com Subject: When you get a minute We got a subpoena to provide information about <identifying information>. When you get a second can you grep through the logs and provide any connection details if he was online from <start> to <end>. Thanks. I didn't even think about it. Maybe the people in legal did? Once or twice I heard that the guy we helped track down was a legitimate bad guy (like a murderer or something), but in general I just remember it being just like any other day-to-day task. I'm not saying I actually handled any of these NSA requests. I have no idea if I did. I never actually saw any of the subpoenas.

by ry0ohki 13y ago

yajoe 13y ago

I've been on the receiving end and posted a couple times trying to explain how it happens. In short, the NSA doesn't typically appear directly. Instead they use the courts and subpoenas to induce compliance for what seem like mundane court cases. See a previous post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5754641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5754641

vy8vWJlco 13y ago

I suspect just getting a request from a three letter agency is enough to make most CTOs and CEOs wet themselves and roll over. (Standing up against the government is not usually part of the business plan.)

lawnchair_larry 13y ago
That's the point of CISPA. They didn't want to fight the government, but they pushed back asking for more legal protections, especially after the AT&T warantless spying scandal broke. So, they've been trying hard to pass CISPA in order to give these CEOs more peace of mind.

olympus 13y ago

They hand out these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter You're not even supposed to reveal that you are complying (gag order). Google has been in the news recently about fighting one in court.

rsync 13y ago
We have been fighting this US policy since 2006: http://www.rsync.net/resources/notices/canary.txt http://www.rsync.net/resources/notices/canary.txt
- cheald 13y ago
  Very clever. Nice hackaround.
- mratzloff 13y ago
  "Although signing the declaration makes it impossible for a third party to produce arbitrary declarations, it does not prevent them from using force to coerce rsync.net to produce false declarations." That's kind of the point. They say, "Keep sending those updates. Otherwise you will go to federal prison." You say, "OK."

baddox 13y ago

How does any government action work? It may start clever and/or subtle, but the fundamental threat is that of violence. You will either be compelled to pay fines, have your equipment confiscated, be thrown in jail, or some combination of the three.

LyndsySimon 13y ago
Voluntaryist? :)

minimax 13y ago

Many many years ago I worked at an ISP and I remember getting emails of the form: From: manager@corp.com To: minimax@corp.com Subject: When you get a minute We got a subpoena to provide information about <identifying information>. When you get a second can you grep through the logs and provide any connection details if he was online from <start> to <end>. Thanks. I didn't even think about it. Maybe the people in legal did? Once or twice I heard that the guy we helped track down was a legitimate bad guy (like a murderer or something), but in general I just remember it being just like any other day-to-day task. I'm not saying I actually handled any of these NSA requests. I have no idea if I did. I never actually saw any of the subpoenas.