4 ms·

Thinking that sync is optional is a really weird thing that seems to linger in the Apple world. You know the old William Gibson line that cyberspace is the pla

by bonaldi 13y ago

Thinking that sync is optional is a really weird thing that seems to linger in the Apple world. You know the old William Gibson line that cyberspace is the place where telephone conversations happen? Not in the hardware at either end, but in the "space between"? Computing has moved there too. Work used to happen on a device and then was transferred to other devices, either manually (floppies, email) or later automatically (sync, dropbox). Thanks to the web, mobile devices and lots of data, that's changed: Google Apps led the way, but Evernote etc all let you do your work in the space between devices. Nowadays, putting the device first over the data (or ignoring other devices entirely, like this app does) is like putting the phone first over the call: beautiful, elegant hardware, refined way to dial, custom typeface for the numbers ... but you can't call anyone with it. Apple in particular makes this mistake repeatedly. Photostream is device-first, so you have to work out what the hell is where and work out what you want to download to which machine. iTunes Match is device-first, so you're forever downloading and deleting tracks to make space on a particular device. Me.com tries to keep the sync truth on one of your devices, so conflicts abound. Notifications appear on all devices and often have to be dismissed individually on each of them. They see the world through the device first. I suppose it's obvious why it happens -- they're a hardware company, and they grew up in a pre-networked world -- but I think misunderstanding this is one key reason they're seen as "bad at services" in comparison to Google, which is instinctively and entirely in "the space between devices". As for this app, why would I ever want to be trapped in a single place again? They might as well have made it for an SE/30.

nicholassmith 13y ago
This app Isn't For You. Sync is great if you want it, or have a need for it, but the majority of iOS users currently have a singular device, so why invest time and resources into a feature a lot of people won't need? Why not just focus on a majority share? Yes you're trapped, but think of it as being stuck on a desert island happily, rather than being jailed unwillingly. Edit: I'll rephrase singular as singular device with an Apple provided operating system.
- bonaldi 13y ago
  Nobody has a singular device. Nobody. Even if they only own one piece of hardware right now, they are surrounded by other hardware they have access to. Why should their stuff be locked to one physical object when it's digital? This isn't something you can pretend is for a minority anymore. It's like making a POP3 client and saying "IMAP is for power users".
  - tsieling 13y ago
    My parents are nobodies with just their phone that they share. Their friends, also seniors and predominantly with one device, are nobodies as well. Why should their stuff be blocked? Because they don't give a gd if it goes elsewhere. In fact, they seem most comfortable with the idea that their stuff is consolidated in one physical thing they understand and not wandering beyond their view or control. There are people like that, they are valid, their desires can be designed for and served, and they will pay money for that. They are not nobodies.
  - montagg 13y ago
    It's also like saying: some people don't want to think about syncing. I have a feeling that's the reasoning, more than anything else. It removes a piece of complexity with a very specific, conscious trade-off. That said, I use syncing to Dropbox religiously with my notes app, so that's a dealbreaker for me.
  - nicholassmith 13y ago
    Nobody has a singular device is true, whether they give a shit about using the machine they use for spreadsheets or quickly checking their hotmail is different to using it as a productive device.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Surely Sync becomes useful for your majority of iOS users when they upgrade devices.
  - roc 13y ago
josephlord 13y ago
I find sync that requires an account a negative factor. There are many notes I wouldn't want to share with Google. Also as soon as you offer sync you need to have a conflict resolution approach and there is no way to always resolve in a clean way without user intervention.
- frou_dh 13y ago
  The time for punting on sync because it's too hard or inconvenient can't last indefinitely in the industry...
  - josephlord 13y ago
    It isn't just hard or inconvenient it is impossible (to do losslessly without human intervention). I take data loss very seriously and I also take privacy issues seriously so even if it was easy and convenient to implement a state of the art solution it still wouldn't be a no-brainer.
- jchrisa 13y ago
  We've been working on sync for a number of years, and have created an open-source lightweight iOS library and backend server. It's still alpha, but it's already in use by a handful of apps in the App Store. Here's an overview: https://github.com/couchbase/mobile https://github.com/couchbase/mobile The iOS embedded sync database: https://github.com/couchbase/couchbase-lite-ios https://github.com/couchbase/couchbase-lite-ios Embedded sync database for Android: https://github.com/couchbase/couchbase-lite-android https://github.com/couchbase/couchbase-lite-android It is designed to sync JSON documents either to the cloud, or from device to device. Everything is open source, so you can run it wherever you want. Our conflict detection and management works by detecting when two users modify the same document, and keeping both versions around. It's up to the application to merge them (or discard one). More about the protocol here: https://github.com/couchbase/couchbase-lite-ios/wiki/Replication-Algorithm https://github.com/couchbase/couchbase-lite-ios/wiki/Replica...
  - josephlord 13y ago
__chrismc 13y ago
DF has posted quite a number of links over the last couple of months, highlighting how poor sync on iOS currently is (iCloud in particular). I'm pretty sure Brett Simmons has posted quite a few of them too... My theory is they tried to get sync working in as polished a fashion as they wanted, it didn't work well enough, so they dropped it for v1. If Apple fixes iCloud sync at WWDC they'll add it back in a new version. If not, they can just say it's not something they feel the app needs.
state 13y ago
I have been trying to put my finger on this for a while. This is what bothers me so much about Dropbox.

by bonaldi 13y ago

nicholassmith 13y ago

This app Isn't For You. Sync is great if you want it, or have a need for it, but the majority of iOS users currently have a singular device, so why invest time and resources into a feature a lot of people won't need? Why not just focus on a majority share? Yes you're trapped, but think of it as being stuck on a desert island happily, rather than being jailed unwillingly. Edit: I'll rephrase singular as singular device with an Apple provided operating system.

bonaldi 13y ago
Nobody has a singular device. Nobody. Even if they only own one piece of hardware right now, they are surrounded by other hardware they have access to. Why should their stuff be locked to one physical object when it's digital? This isn't something you can pretend is for a minority anymore. It's like making a POP3 client and saying "IMAP is for power users".
- tsieling 13y ago
  My parents are nobodies with just their phone that they share. Their friends, also seniors and predominantly with one device, are nobodies as well. Why should their stuff be blocked? Because they don't give a gd if it goes elsewhere. In fact, they seem most comfortable with the idea that their stuff is consolidated in one physical thing they understand and not wandering beyond their view or control. There are people like that, they are valid, their desires can be designed for and served, and they will pay money for that. They are not nobodies.
- montagg 13y ago
  It's also like saying: some people don't want to think about syncing. I have a feeling that's the reasoning, more than anything else. It removes a piece of complexity with a very specific, conscious trade-off. That said, I use syncing to Dropbox religiously with my notes app, so that's a dealbreaker for me.
- nicholassmith 13y ago
  Nobody has a singular device is true, whether they give a shit about using the machine they use for spreadsheets or quickly checking their hotmail is different to using it as a productive device.
jlgreco 13y ago
Surely Sync becomes useful for your majority of iOS users when they upgrade devices.
- roc 13y ago

josephlord 13y ago

I find sync that requires an account a negative factor. There are many notes I wouldn't want to share with Google. Also as soon as you offer sync you need to have a conflict resolution approach and there is no way to always resolve in a clean way without user intervention.

frou_dh 13y ago
The time for punting on sync because it's too hard or inconvenient can't last indefinitely in the industry...
- josephlord 13y ago
  It isn't just hard or inconvenient it is impossible (to do losslessly without human intervention). I take data loss very seriously and I also take privacy issues seriously so even if it was easy and convenient to implement a state of the art solution it still wouldn't be a no-brainer.
jchrisa 13y ago
We've been working on sync for a number of years, and have created an open-source lightweight iOS library and backend server. It's still alpha, but it's already in use by a handful of apps in the App Store. Here's an overview: https://github.com/couchbase/mobile https://github.com/couchbase/mobile The iOS embedded sync database: https://github.com/couchbase/couchbase-lite-ios https://github.com/couchbase/couchbase-lite-ios Embedded sync database for Android: https://github.com/couchbase/couchbase-lite-android https://github.com/couchbase/couchbase-lite-android It is designed to sync JSON documents either to the cloud, or from device to device. Everything is open source, so you can run it wherever you want. Our conflict detection and management works by detecting when two users modify the same document, and keeping both versions around. It's up to the application to merge them (or discard one). More about the protocol here: https://github.com/couchbase/couchbase-lite-ios/wiki/Replication-Algorithm https://github.com/couchbase/couchbase-lite-ios/wiki/Replica...
- josephlord 13y ago

__chrismc 13y ago

DF has posted quite a number of links over the last couple of months, highlighting how poor sync on iOS currently is (iCloud in particular). I'm pretty sure Brett Simmons has posted quite a few of them too... My theory is they tried to get sync working in as polished a fashion as they wanted, it didn't work well enough, so they dropped it for v1. If Apple fixes iCloud sync at WWDC they'll add it back in a new version. If not, they can just say it's not something they feel the app needs.

state 13y ago

I have been trying to put my finger on this for a while. This is what bothers me so much about Dropbox.