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John Gruber and friends launch Vesper note capture app
- notatoad 13y agothat's a very pretty translation of iOS design principles into a flat UI. makes me wonder in Gruber & friends have seen a sneak peek at the rumoured new flat iOS.
- antidaily 13y agoUgh. I hope not.
- addlepate 13y agoMysterious, indeed...
- smackfu 13y agoWell, that explains why he linked to that "A $5 app isn't expensive" post from Daring Fireball yesterday. http://www.macworld.com/article/2032847/a-5-app-isnt-expensive-customers-need-to-help-fix-the-app-store-economy.html http://www.macworld.com/article/2032847/a-5-app-isnt-expensi...
- tptacek 13y agoOr, it's the other way around, and the pricing philosophy he's had all along influenced his decision on how to price this: http://daringfireball.net/2006/11/pinprick http://daringfireball.net/2006/11/pinprick (Where by "or" I mean "no").
- smackfu 13y agoI'm saying it's not a coincidence he linked to that two month old article the day before he released a $5 app. Prime the pump, in a sense.
- samtp 13y agoWhen will the Android version be released?
- youngerdryas 13y agoAt the singularity.
- kloncks 13y agoNever. It's Gruber.
- rednukleus 13y agoHonest question - what is it with these Apple fanatics not wanting to write any software ever for Android, Windows, Linux or anything not Apple? Is it just spite?
- slantyyz 13y ago>> what is it with these Apple fanatics not wanting to write any software ever for Android, Windows, Linux Perhaps the answer to your question is inside your question itself.
- frenchy 13y agoIt's probably because they see so much software that only works for Windows, or only works out-of-the box for Linux, they want something that makes their platform of choice special.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- frou_dh 13y agoThat's an odd question because it frames people exercising freedom to choose what they spend their own time on as unreasonable. Do you choose your own activities, necessarily not choosing others, out of spite?
- nlh 13y agoUnless I'm missing something, this is a direct competitor to Evernote, yes? I think I get it - Evernote has always been a bit of a mess IMHO and while it's the best of what existed, it seemed overly complicated and cluttered. This appears to be a measured (and flat) response to that.
- jckt 13y agoIs that it though? Is this just a note-taking app that, as it looks, has less features than Evernote? (web interface, etc). Does look nice, though, I'll give Vesper that.
- egypturnash 13y agoI don't see anything about Vesper syncing to the cloud, so there's no way it could ever compete with Evernote for me. My notes have not been tied to any one particular device for several years thanks to EN, and there's no way I'm giving that up.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- guelo 13y agoSo?
- badusername 13y agoChill out bro.
- mtthw 13y agoInteresting name. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define+vesper http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define+vesper
- leejoramo 13y agoGiven Gruber's love of all things Bond, I respect that the name comes from the first Bond girl (and great cocktail) Vesper Lynd. Edit: Ah, their company's name is "Q Branch" which is the division that provides all of Bond's gadgets.
- fratis 13y agoIt's the name of James Bond's signature martini. The LLC's name, Q Branch, refers to the R&D wing of MI6.
- jdechko 13y agoI'm pretty sure it's a Bond reference. Supporting data: - Gruber is a huge James Bond fan - Vesper (Lynd) - vesperapp.co makes a reference to QBranch
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- leejoramo 13y agoBought it and played around with it a bit. Very nice interface. The app has a very nice initial feel. However besides the ability to send an email or text, the data appears to only stay the app. There is no DropBox or other syncing options. So it will not replace SimpleNote/nvAlt for me. Interesting, I expected this to support Markdown. But I do like the simple and automated formatting that is provided.
- leejoramo 13y agoThe fact, that they named the app after the First Bond Girl could indicate that this is a first of group of apps. So maybe the sync'ing features will be coming in later releases.
- ph33r 13y agoIt looks nice. I will give it that, but $5 bucks seems a little much for a notes app that can't sync across platforms as far as I can tell... not even iCloud. Evernote, Springpad, Simplenote, and even Google Keep for iOS (when it is finally release) have syncing from the get go.
- ramykhuffash 13y agoIt seems to be very similar to Day One, which also costs $5 and is quite popular
- kmfrk 13y agoDay One looks really exciting, but the reviews are really up in arms about a lack of encryption. Does anyone know more about this supposed issue?
- ph33r 13y agoLack of encryption and lack of Google Drive support have held me back from using this as well. Let me know if you find out anything more.
- smackfu 13y agoI certainly don't see much reason to buy v1.0 for full price. Wait a month and see if the features improve or the price drops.
- bowerbird 13y agoi predict that the price will not drop. i predict that features will not improve. i predict that another app will be released, at a similar price-point, with more features. and then another one after that. and another. in other words, i predict a well-executed plan to extract as much cash as possible from fans. nothing wrong with that. if you can get away with it. -bowerbird
- marcosscriven 13y agoWhat an awesome position to be launching an app from, in terms of marketing!
- jmduke 13y agoIt appears to me by purchasing this app, you are trading the features of existing products for a slick design. I'm particularly impressed with how they have spun the lack of features as a feature ("simple and elegant", "imposes no system") For me, inability to coexist with Notational Velocity is a dealbreaker.
- tptacek 13y agoIsn't that a little bit like saying that by buying a Moleskin notebook, you're trading the features of existing products like Trapper Keepers?
- jmduke 13y agoThis might be stretching the metaphor a little, but in college I'd take a five-section notebook over a Moleskin any day because of the nifty little pockets that I could keep problem sets and syllabi in. Similarly, an iOS notes app that doesn't have websync just seems unhelpful for me. The only time I need to record a piece of data and I don't have access to my laptop/paper are usually when I need to remember something for later: and that "later" involves me using my laptop. (Advantage of note apps vs. note books: the former lends themselves much more to iteration.)
- tptacek 13y agoSo this is easy: the kind of person who prefers a five-section notebook to a Moleskine is not the target audience for this application. Just like those apps that appeal to people who track their jogging times are not targeted towards me, unless they also have pig fat and whiskey features.
- jlgreco 13y agoMost people who don't want a "trapper keeper" probably don't want one because all of those extra features make the product literally heavy and bulky. Now there may be something to why they choose a brand-name notepad instead of a cheaper alternative, but I don't think this analogy works for comparing software features of apps on phones. Maybe a better example might be somebody choosing a pocket knife that was not a "swiss army" pocket knife. The nail file doesn't really get in your way, but if you don't want it, why have it?
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- monkey_slap 13y agoI'm not sure I'm understanding the point of this tool. It looks trendy, but it takes notes. No syncing. I mean, this is the guy that wrote NetNewsWire. Wouldn't an app like this be doable in a weekend? I honestly want to find something new that the app does that is supposed to change my workflow, but there is just nothing. A cynical part of me feels like this exists (especially with the $5 price tag) just to ride the fame coattails of Gruber+Simmons+Wiskus. I don't condemn them for taking the opportunity of their current notoriety. I'm coming off of week 4 of an app launch that completely failed to garner any reviews or growth, so it does really hurt to see reviews of this app that are nearly 4,000 words long: http://www.macstories.net/reviews/vesper-review-collect-your-thoughts/ http://www.macstories.net/reviews/vesper-review-collect-your...
- tptacek 13y agoWouldn't an app like this be doable in a weekend? Paul Graham, I know you can hear me, and I know this is possible because I know a thing or two about the Javascripts, and so I'm telling you now: the site's banner should strobe clown colors for 5 minutes every time news.arc sees this string.
- youngerdryas 13y agoThat is pretty unfair to pg and people that don't like clown colors. A browser extension version should only take a couple hours.
- danielgrieve 13y agoThat's true. At the very least a browser extension would be doable in a weekend.
- nicholassmith 13y agoThink of all the strings that cold be extended out to as well. If there's any justice in the world this will be at least an option.
- pazimzadeh 13y agoHere is Gruber's review of Simplenote from 2009: http://daringfireball.net/2009/07/simplenote http://daringfireball.net/2009/07/simplenote
- alexcroox 13y ago"But I noted three significant shortcomings: 1. Syncing"
- pseudometa 13y agoLove it!
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- tptacek 13y agoI wish this existed on OS X, and not just iOS, a platform where I'm never particularly interested in taking notes. What would be especially nice would be if iOS Vesper was a satellite of a desktop Vesper, so that my photos and location information would automatically get pulled into my notes.
- rdouble 13y agoDay One does this. It's a journal app, but it has the same features as Vesper, but with sync, a desktop app, and a calendar view of your posts. In my eyes it also has a very similar interface.
- danpalmer 13y agoFeatures: I'm all for simplicity, in the right circumstances. I use Clear from Realmac Software because when I'm creating to-do lists, speed is the most important thing to me. However, when I'm writing notes, accessibility is probably the most important thing for me and that means sync, I'd also bet this is the case for many people, hence the popularity of things like Evernote and Google Keep. The absence of sync from Vesper seems like a massive oversight, and makes me wonder if it's on the cards for a future version, or perhaps for a working iCloud? In addition to sync, I would have thought it would have Markdown support, even if it was transparent to the user in some way and Price: The price doesn't hugely concern me here. If I find an app truly useful, then $5 is a small price to pay, and I support developers making a bit of a stand on this and charging premium prices for premium products. The feature set isn't one that interests me because of the lack of sync, so whether it was $5 or $1 wouldn't really make a difference for me. Design: 'flat design' is nice when done well, but detracts from usability when done badly in my opinion. If you have a non-flat design, unless it's hugely over-the-top, I don't think it detracts from the usability. (sidenote, what's the correct terminology for the opposite of 'flat design'? It's certainly not skeumorphic) Lots of Microsoft's 'metro' styling does flat design well, using varying font sizes and typographic and visual hints to provide context to controls, whereas Visual Studio has gone too far and removed far to many visual cues which results in a less usable interface in my experience. I feel that Vesper goes to far. As there is so little to the app it's hard to justify it being 'less usable', but I do think the interface to be a long way from correctly executed flat design. I think other apps and designs are far closer to how flat design should be. Another interesting thing to note is the animation on transitioning to a new note. Federico Vittici made a GIF of it (http://bit.ly/15EEKkP http://bit.ly/15EEKkP) for his review (http://bit.ly/11Hkz16 http://bit.ly/11Hkz16). Federico points out that it makes the interface feel a lot faster to the user, but I don't think it's the right thing to do. Firstly, as I said above, I don't think speed should be a priority for things like this, after all, the amount of time for a 0.5s transition is minuscule to the amount of time spent composing the note. But also it breaks the well known metaphor of the UI stack in iOS. The back button still indicates that it will move to the screen on the left, however the screen hasn't really moved in the user's mind. It's not a crucial point, but it's one of those 'papercuts' (http://askubuntu.com/questions/1006/what-is-a-paper-cut http://askubuntu.com/questions/1006/what-is-a-paper-cut) that I would expect a team such as the one behind this app to have addressed. I wrote more than I planned to, so I might turn this into a blog post. Would be interested to know peoples thoughts on it first though.
- danpalmer 13y agoI find the choice of name interesting. I realise it's a Bond reference, but the first impression I got was of an unreliable old moped, not the image I think the developers would want to associate with.
- ryandvm 13y agoCool. Gruber just invented Google Keep.
- lostlogin 13y agoRemoving the Google from that probably gets a few sales. Especially with his audience.
- slantyyz 13y agoFor reference, here were his thoughts on Google Keep a few months ago: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2013/03/21/keep http://daringfireball.net/linked/2013/03/21/keep
- rednukleus 13y agoConsidering that Google are amazingly good at giving you your data back, and allowing you to transition off to other services, his comment is about the most stupid and self-defeating thing he could possibly say.
- frontsideair 13y ago"Trust your thoughts and ideas to the greatest Apple apologist ever. Good luck with that."
- bonaldi 13y agoThinking that sync is optional is a really weird thing that seems to linger in the Apple world. You know the old William Gibson line that cyberspace is the place where telephone conversations happen? Not in the hardware at either end, but in the "space between"? Computing has moved there too. Work used to happen on a device and then was transferred to other devices, either manually (floppies, email) or later automatically (sync, dropbox). Thanks to the web, mobile devices and lots of data, that's changed: Google Apps led the way, but Evernote etc all let you do your work in the space between devices. Nowadays, putting the device first over the data (or ignoring other devices entirely, like this app does) is like putting the phone first over the call: beautiful, elegant hardware, refined way to dial, custom typeface for the numbers ... but you can't call anyone with it. Apple in particular makes this mistake repeatedly. Photostream is device-first, so you have to work out what the hell is where and work out what you want to download to which machine. iTunes Match is device-first, so you're forever downloading and deleting tracks to make space on a particular device. Me.com tries to keep the sync truth on one of your devices, so conflicts abound. Notifications appear on all devices and often have to be dismissed individually on each of them. They see the world through the device first. I suppose it's obvious why it happens -- they're a hardware company, and they grew up in a pre-networked world -- but I think misunderstanding this is one key reason they're seen as "bad at services" in comparison to Google, which is instinctively and entirely in "the space between devices". As for this app, why would I ever want to be trapped in a single place again? They might as well have made it for an SE/30.
- nicholassmith 13y agoThis app Isn't For You. Sync is great if you want it, or have a need for it, but the majority of iOS users currently have a singular device, so why invest time and resources into a feature a lot of people won't need? Why not just focus on a majority share? Yes you're trapped, but think of it as being stuck on a desert island happily, rather than being jailed unwillingly. Edit: I'll rephrase singular as singular device with an Apple provided operating system.
- bonaldi 13y agoNobody has a singular device. Nobody. Even if they only own one piece of hardware right now, they are surrounded by other hardware they have access to. Why should their stuff be locked to one physical object when it's digital? This isn't something you can pretend is for a minority anymore. It's like making a POP3 client and saying "IMAP is for power users".
- manish_gill 13y agoWhat exactly is the point of this? I mean, what does this app do that's new or exciting or hell, even better than any existing app does? Not to take anything away from the people who made this, but if someone else had made such a simplistic app, with next to no features, and put it out, I doubt anyone would have given it the time of day. This is app.net all over again.
- marknutter 13y agoAm I the only one who thinks flat design looks boring and generic?
- csomar 13y agoPeople who complain about the $5 price tag: How many coffees do you buy per day? Now, I don't drink coffee (dry eyes issues) and I'm not an app store shopaholic. However, if there is something of interest, I'm not going to complain about the lack of x and y and the high price. The price is already too low.
- panacea 13y agoNo voice dictation. No syncing. More expensive than the free notes app. Lame.
- ChikkaChiChi 13y agois it just me or did a lot of chimney commenters just shrug away the inadequacies of this app by predicting things based on nothing at all?
- ChikkaChiChi 13y agois it just me or did a lot of chimney commenters just shrug away the inadequacies of this app by predicting things based on nothing at all?
- lonster 13y agoUgh... another note-taking app. How does this non-innovation make frontpage news at Techmeme and other places? I don't get it. Make an app that takes notes FOR me, automatically, without me having to even think about it, and I'll pay $5 for that. Seriously, we've been making note-taking apps since the dawn of the text editor. It's a solved problem. Move along.