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How Google Authorship and Penguin have killed our traffic – follow-up

29 points by jitbit 13y ago

manacit 13y ago
So, basically, scummy (and bad) SEO tactics killed them (accidental and on purpose), but somehow it's Google's fault?
- jitbit 13y ago
  From the 3 reasons I pointed out in the article, only one is scummy. The other two (widget links from our software and download-site campaign) were ACCIDENTAL. I'm sharing it so other HNers don't fall into same trap.
  - michaelhoffman 13y ago
    One scummy thing should be enough.
- ScottWhigham 13y ago
  That's about as horrible of a tl;dr summary as I can imagine someone could come up with even if they were trying to come up with a bad tl;dr. It's clear that you didn't read the article.
  - manacit 13y ago
    Two of the reasons they were "hit by penguin" were: * Bad Links bought by their SEO contractor * "Grey Hat" link buying I stand by my tl;dr - they lost traffic due to bad SEO. I never said it was their fault, but it's certainly not Google's.
    - ignostic 13y ago
      >"I never said it was their fault, but it's certainly not Google's." Neither did the author.
programminggeek 13y ago
Ok, if you want a great example of how Google is using black boxes to do social engineering, this is 100% it. The writer doesn't know for certain those things were hurting him, but out of fear their whole marketing strategy changed and now they are going about the business of getting links taken down. Now, you could argue that they should have been more thoughtful about their SEO efforts in the first place, but consider how deeply dysfunctional it is that webmasters are so afraid of Google and Matt Cutts that they are begging each other to take down links they paid for in the first place. There is no scientific proof that any of these links had anything to do with them ranking well or badly or changing their CTR or anything, the author is just assuming it's these things that hurt their Google traffic. Google's ranking policies are now the equivalent of the webmaster boogie man.
- walshemj 13y ago
  Well from experience site wide paid links will get you dinged hard I know of one household name publication from a major publisher in the UK that had a salesman that thought it would be a good idea to sell links. They where penalised hard by google - and they had to grovel to get back in. Pity that getting burned once didn't make them take our advice on SEO.
- magicalist 13y ago
  > consider how deeply dysfunctional it is that webmasters are so afraid of Google and Matt Cutts that they are begging each other to take down links they paid for in the first place Wait, how is that dysfunctional? "should have been more thoughtful about their SEO efforts in the first place" implies at least a likelihood that they would want to rescind their earlier actions, which is what they're doing. That seems...functional. I mean, living in fear of only somewhat specified rules likely has other consequences that discourage good behavior in other ways, but the specifics you describe seems like what you'd want to happen[1]. [1] http://xkcd.com/810/ http://xkcd.com/810/
xpose2000 13y ago
You mentioned in the article that you have links in the headers/footers of various websites that say: "Powered by Jitbit AspNetForum". Here is my take on that... These COULD potentially hurt you, but I doubt it. That would mean all forum software links in the footers were doing more harm than good. Forum software websites like phpBB, vBulletin etc are doing just fine. Furthermore, your install-base and incoming links should grow slowly over time and Google will recognize that as a natural kind of thing. Therefore, I would cross that off your list of reasons. Your main reason for being hit by Penguin are bad SEO practices. Never buy links for SEO. You may benefit from these links today, but 3 years down the road Google might catch on. (As you just realized) If you do purchase links, make sure to nofollow them and point the user to an actionable page. Such as purchasing your software or signing up for a newsletter. The goal here won't be for SEO purposes, but for advertising.
- michaelbuckbee 13y ago
  We've thought of replicating something like MixPanel's free actions for adding their image and a link on your site program [1]. Would something like that be penalized with Penguin? Honestly, not sure if that counts as "Gray Hat" or not. 1 - https://mixpanel.com/free/ https://mixpanel.com/free/
  - xpose2000 13y ago
    That practice is similar to adding a "powered by X Company" link. The fact that it is an image doesn't really change anything. Clicky.com also uses this method. I do not think those links would be penalized with Penguin for the same reasons I previously mentioned. Is it a cheesy way to get links? Probably. But you should be fine.
gavinlynch 13y ago
How good is your product if SEO tricks are at the core of sustaining your business model?
ISL 13y ago
So, how to find "toxic" links to your site 1: ... 2: ... 3: Find links from non-English pages - this one is obvious Isn't the internet an international thing? If Slovenians like a site, shouldn't that help, not hurt?
rhizome 13y ago
The SEO agency we hired through oDesk Not to mention the facepalm-chuckle this gives me, this accounts for two of your three reasons. Why wasn't it included in the title? In fact, the title's assertion is not supported at all by the post.
- ignostic 13y ago
  And as it turns out, you get low-quality links when you pay $5 on Fiverr. Who would have imagined!?

29 points by jitbit 13y ago

manacit 13y ago

So, basically, scummy (and bad) SEO tactics killed them (accidental and on purpose), but somehow it's Google's fault?

jitbit 13y ago
From the 3 reasons I pointed out in the article, only one is scummy. The other two (widget links from our software and download-site campaign) were ACCIDENTAL. I'm sharing it so other HNers don't fall into same trap.
- michaelhoffman 13y ago
  One scummy thing should be enough.
ScottWhigham 13y ago
That's about as horrible of a tl;dr summary as I can imagine someone could come up with even if they were trying to come up with a bad tl;dr. It's clear that you didn't read the article.
- manacit 13y ago
  Two of the reasons they were "hit by penguin" were: * Bad Links bought by their SEO contractor * "Grey Hat" link buying I stand by my tl;dr - they lost traffic due to bad SEO. I never said it was their fault, but it's certainly not Google's.
  - ignostic 13y ago
    >"I never said it was their fault, but it's certainly not Google's." Neither did the author.

programminggeek 13y ago

Ok, if you want a great example of how Google is using black boxes to do social engineering, this is 100% it. The writer doesn't know for certain those things were hurting him, but out of fear their whole marketing strategy changed and now they are going about the business of getting links taken down. Now, you could argue that they should have been more thoughtful about their SEO efforts in the first place, but consider how deeply dysfunctional it is that webmasters are so afraid of Google and Matt Cutts that they are begging each other to take down links they paid for in the first place. There is no scientific proof that any of these links had anything to do with them ranking well or badly or changing their CTR or anything, the author is just assuming it's these things that hurt their Google traffic. Google's ranking policies are now the equivalent of the webmaster boogie man.

walshemj 13y ago
Well from experience site wide paid links will get you dinged hard I know of one household name publication from a major publisher in the UK that had a salesman that thought it would be a good idea to sell links. They where penalised hard by google - and they had to grovel to get back in. Pity that getting burned once didn't make them take our advice on SEO.
magicalist 13y ago
> consider how deeply dysfunctional it is that webmasters are so afraid of Google and Matt Cutts that they are begging each other to take down links they paid for in the first place Wait, how is that dysfunctional? "should have been more thoughtful about their SEO efforts in the first place" implies at least a likelihood that they would want to rescind their earlier actions, which is what they're doing. That seems...functional. I mean, living in fear of only somewhat specified rules likely has other consequences that discourage good behavior in other ways, but the specifics you describe seems like what you'd want to happen[1]. [1] http://xkcd.com/810/ http://xkcd.com/810/

xpose2000 13y ago

You mentioned in the article that you have links in the headers/footers of various websites that say: "Powered by Jitbit AspNetForum". Here is my take on that... These COULD potentially hurt you, but I doubt it. That would mean all forum software links in the footers were doing more harm than good. Forum software websites like phpBB, vBulletin etc are doing just fine. Furthermore, your install-base and incoming links should grow slowly over time and Google will recognize that as a natural kind of thing. Therefore, I would cross that off your list of reasons. Your main reason for being hit by Penguin are bad SEO practices. Never buy links for SEO. You may benefit from these links today, but 3 years down the road Google might catch on. (As you just realized) If you do purchase links, make sure to nofollow them and point the user to an actionable page. Such as purchasing your software or signing up for a newsletter. The goal here won't be for SEO purposes, but for advertising.

michaelbuckbee 13y ago
We've thought of replicating something like MixPanel's free actions for adding their image and a link on your site program [1]. Would something like that be penalized with Penguin? Honestly, not sure if that counts as "Gray Hat" or not. 1 - https://mixpanel.com/free/ https://mixpanel.com/free/
- xpose2000 13y ago
  That practice is similar to adding a "powered by X Company" link. The fact that it is an image doesn't really change anything. Clicky.com also uses this method. I do not think those links would be penalized with Penguin for the same reasons I previously mentioned. Is it a cheesy way to get links? Probably. But you should be fine.

gavinlynch 13y ago

How good is your product if SEO tricks are at the core of sustaining your business model?

ISL 13y ago

So, how to find "toxic" links to your site 1: ... 2: ... 3: Find links from non-English pages - this one is obvious Isn't the internet an international thing? If Slovenians like a site, shouldn't that help, not hurt?

rhizome 13y ago

The SEO agency we hired through oDesk Not to mention the facepalm-chuckle this gives me, this accounts for two of your three reasons. Why wasn't it included in the title? In fact, the title's assertion is not supported at all by the post.

ignostic 13y ago
And as it turns out, you get low-quality links when you pay $5 on Fiverr. Who would have imagined!?