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And a pretty low population density: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_density http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_

And a pretty low population density: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_density http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_populati...

MartinCron 13y ago
Low population density is almost redundant with "Cheap land"
- protomyth 13y ago
  Not is the case where resources are found under said land or the land is farm land.
  - dalke 13y ago
    Where is there farm land which is anywhere near as expensive as building a warehouse or data center? And where there's low population density? The cost of farm land seems to be around $9000/acre, and certainly under $20,000/acre. The major exceptions are places like Sonoma County, where vineyards are still profitable even though the land can go for $100,000/acre. But this is also a place where there's high population, so excluded from consideration. A warehouse, for 30,000 sq. foot (about 0.7 acres) costs around $3 million, as does a 20,000 sq. foot office. (On average across the US.)
    - protomyth 13y ago
      We are comparing cost of land, not cost of building stuff on the land.
      - dalke 13y ago
        Certainly. My point is that the cost of farm land in non-populated areas is minor.
        protomyth 13y ago
        expect for the oil boom driving up land prices in non-populated areas. $9,000 is really a low figure these days.
        dalke 13y ago
        I wrote "The cost of farm land seems to be around $9000/acre, and certainly under $20,000/acre." If you're talking about oil land, then that's not really farm land, is it? It's obvious that land with good mineral/oil rights can be worth a lot more. In any case, oil doesn't seem like a good example. A derrick and pump don't need much in the way of land, and slant drilling means that any really expensive land can be avoided. I see prices in North Dakota of 'certainly under $20,000', even in that oil boom state: "Linda Fisher, a Land Department leasing coordinator, said the three quarterly sales [in 2010] have fetched a record $269.2 million for about 135,000 acres, compared with about $103 million for 137,800 acres for all of 2009." (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700059300/ND-oil-lease-auctions-double-last-years-record.html?pg=all http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700059300/ND-oil-lease-au... ). That's an average of about $2,000/acre, though the boom has continued since then. "At about the same time, records and interviews show, other companies were purchasing drilling rights to land on and near the reservation for $300 to $1,000 per acre plus royalties as high as 22.5 percent.... Two lawsuits allege that by buying Dakota-3, Williams effectively paid more than $10,000 per acre for those rights." (http://www.opb.org/news/article/land-grab-cheats-north-dakota-tribes-out-of-1-billion-suits-allege&#x2F http://www.opb.org/news/article/land-grab-cheats-north-dakot...; ) I haven't found anything which says that $9,000/acre for oil land is "really a low figure these days." If anything, that seems to be only somewhat below the going rate. On the other hand, it is high compared to non-irrigated farm land, which goes for no more than $3,000/acre for the most expensive county average in North Dakota. (The value in most counties is usually under $1,000/acre.) So, where is this $20,000+/acre land you're talking about?
        protomyth 13y ago
        Oil land is farm land, what is under doesn't affect farming. I've seen 30k in western ND. Back, to the original point of the original poster, the land isn't dirt cheap.
pchristensen 13y ago
Utah overall population density is low but the Salt Lake metro is in geographically constrained valleys and fairly dense (maybe halfway between LA and Midwestern densities). The deserts and mountains are not useful for the NSA.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 13y ago
  They also have toxic fog: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5106783 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5106783

And a pretty low population density: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_density http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_populati...

MartinCron 13y ago

Low population density is almost redundant with "Cheap land"

protomyth 13y ago
Not is the case where resources are found under said land or the land is farm land.
- dalke 13y ago
  Where is there farm land which is anywhere near as expensive as building a warehouse or data center? And where there's low population density? The cost of farm land seems to be around $9000/acre, and certainly under $20,000/acre. The major exceptions are places like Sonoma County, where vineyards are still profitable even though the land can go for $100,000/acre. But this is also a place where there's high population, so excluded from consideration. A warehouse, for 30,000 sq. foot (about 0.7 acres) costs around $3 million, as does a 20,000 sq. foot office. (On average across the US.)
  - protomyth 13y ago
    We are comparing cost of land, not cost of building stuff on the land.
    - dalke 13y ago
      Certainly. My point is that the cost of farm land in non-populated areas is minor.
      - protomyth 13y ago
        expect for the oil boom driving up land prices in non-populated areas. $9,000 is really a low figure these days.
        dalke 13y ago
        I wrote "The cost of farm land seems to be around $9000/acre, and certainly under $20,000/acre." If you're talking about oil land, then that's not really farm land, is it? It's obvious that land with good mineral/oil rights can be worth a lot more. In any case, oil doesn't seem like a good example. A derrick and pump don't need much in the way of land, and slant drilling means that any really expensive land can be avoided. I see prices in North Dakota of 'certainly under $20,000', even in that oil boom state: "Linda Fisher, a Land Department leasing coordinator, said the three quarterly sales [in 2010] have fetched a record $269.2 million for about 135,000 acres, compared with about $103 million for 137,800 acres for all of 2009." (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700059300/ND-oil-lease-auctions-double-last-years-record.html?pg=all http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700059300/ND-oil-lease-au... ). That's an average of about $2,000/acre, though the boom has continued since then. "At about the same time, records and interviews show, other companies were purchasing drilling rights to land on and near the reservation for $300 to $1,000 per acre plus royalties as high as 22.5 percent.... Two lawsuits allege that by buying Dakota-3, Williams effectively paid more than $10,000 per acre for those rights." (http://www.opb.org/news/article/land-grab-cheats-north-dakota-tribes-out-of-1-billion-suits-allege&#x2F http://www.opb.org/news/article/land-grab-cheats-north-dakot...; ) I haven't found anything which says that $9,000/acre for oil land is "really a low figure these days." If anything, that seems to be only somewhat below the going rate. On the other hand, it is high compared to non-irrigated farm land, which goes for no more than $3,000/acre for the most expensive county average in North Dakota. (The value in most counties is usually under $1,000/acre.) So, where is this $20,000+/acre land you're talking about?
        protomyth 13y ago
        Oil land is farm land, what is under doesn't affect farming. I've seen 30k in western ND. Back, to the original point of the original poster, the land isn't dirt cheap.

pchristensen 13y ago

Utah overall population density is low but the Salt Lake metro is in geographically constrained valleys and fairly dense (maybe halfway between LA and Midwestern densities). The deserts and mountains are not useful for the NSA.

0xdeadbeefbabe 13y ago
They also have toxic fog: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5106783 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5106783