4 ms·

I stopped reading about 1/2 way into the article. Brace yourself, the rant is coming... <rant> Too many red flags springing from a delusional, narrow-minded vi

I stopped reading about 1/2 way into the article. Brace yourself, the rant is coming... <rant> Too many red flags springing from a delusional, narrow-minded view which looked no further than the bloated world of Valley startups. Hope mr. Author could cast his eye to some other corners of the world (no, even other parts of the States) and witness the bleak reality of a career called web development. Startups are just a small part, albeit the highlighted part of the system. What would you then call those developers who do back-breaking work, with a fraction of your starting salary, in a dead-end career path surrounded by an equally depressing environment? Low-class web developers? They are just like any other programmers out side, people who chose coding as a profession. Before all the perks, freedom and fun, this is a job. You work for your pay, period. I am sick and tired off seeing another article with a viewpoint through rose-tinted glass about values of coders. Enough is enough. </rant> <conclusion> There are overpaid programmers and there are underpaid programmers, everywhere in the world. I probably fall into the underpaid camp, that's why I feel annoyed seeing way too many articles with BS about the cool $100k IT jobs for fresh graduates. Where I stay, it probably takes an above average fresh grad 5-6 years of doing good jobs while hopping around (startup/MNC/whatever) to come somewhere close to $100. The media just does not ever cover the average Joe programmer's career path, but this is the reality. </conclusion>

krallja 13y ago
Your rant agrees with the article. What a waste of a rant.
- fieryeagle 13y ago
  Well, I didn't even read through the whole article. Your comment prompted me to go back and read everything, and I failed to see where the agreement lies. My point was that the author questions the values of his work from a rather high vantage point, which may be valid but it annoyed me. For a well-informed opinion to be made, I'd think that it takes an amalgamation of different viewpoints, not just from the high medians. Besides, one must see how everyone else in the same profession has it in other areas. $80k for the 1st job? Not many places around the world, seriously. Based on how much underpaid/overpaid you are comparatively to your responsibilities plus where you stay, each combination forms an entirely different set of values to question, different set of objectives to purse. That is why I found the article well-intentioned but not well-informed and in a way, misleading as most articles involving start-up programmers.
voodoomagicman 13y ago
Do you realize there is actual back breaking work - and coding isn't it? And that making $100k after 5 years is still about twice the median income for a family, and goes a lot farther in places with a low cost of living than it does in New York or the bay area. And that if you want a higher paying job, it is on you to find it and get hired?
- fieryeagle 13y ago
  Of course I meant in the industry itself. Project-based programmers working until midnight for $40k annum with no extras, that's back-breaking alright. Working 9-6pm, comparatively for $80k isn't.
damoncali 13y ago
Go finish the article. You missed the point because you stopped half way through.
- fieryeagle 13y ago
  Read the whole thing and my opinion is now slightly more favourable yet I maintain my point of "see more, hear more". I get the author's standpoint yet it irks me that he seems to think the majority of web developers out there are overpaid for doing less than meaningful work. What about those who cursed the job day in day out but stuck with it for the paycheck while looking out? Do they question the same things? Yes, but getting paid this month is more important and no, other parts of the world don't usually get severance packages. The article is someone's opinion and I'm merely expressing my own as well. Everything is debatable because the industry is so much different from one city to another, let alone countries. Unless this is entirely dedicated to one part of the States, otherwise it is good but flawed argument.
  - damoncali 13y ago
    I don't think he's suggesting they're overpaid. He's just wondering how much he's contributing to the world, despite his high pay and societal praise. If anything, I think it points out the fallacy of thinking that our pay and our personal interpretation of our "worth" are in actuality totally disconnected, although we may feel differently. He feels, I would imagine, some angst over the fact that his contribution to the world may not be worthy of the money he receives. It's an interesting point, and a tough one to wrestle with. Lots going on there.
    - fieryeagle 13y ago
      Very true, for that I wholeheartedly agree and I do admire his earnestness in pointing what many may have noticed but chosen to ignore anyway.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]

krallja 13y ago

Your rant agrees with the article. What a waste of a rant.

fieryeagle 13y ago
Well, I didn't even read through the whole article. Your comment prompted me to go back and read everything, and I failed to see where the agreement lies. My point was that the author questions the values of his work from a rather high vantage point, which may be valid but it annoyed me. For a well-informed opinion to be made, I'd think that it takes an amalgamation of different viewpoints, not just from the high medians. Besides, one must see how everyone else in the same profession has it in other areas. $80k for the 1st job? Not many places around the world, seriously. Based on how much underpaid/overpaid you are comparatively to your responsibilities plus where you stay, each combination forms an entirely different set of values to question, different set of objectives to purse. That is why I found the article well-intentioned but not well-informed and in a way, misleading as most articles involving start-up programmers.

voodoomagicman 13y ago

Do you realize there is actual back breaking work - and coding isn't it? And that making $100k after 5 years is still about twice the median income for a family, and goes a lot farther in places with a low cost of living than it does in New York or the bay area. And that if you want a higher paying job, it is on you to find it and get hired?

fieryeagle 13y ago
Of course I meant in the industry itself. Project-based programmers working until midnight for $40k annum with no extras, that's back-breaking alright. Working 9-6pm, comparatively for $80k isn't.

damoncali 13y ago

Go finish the article. You missed the point because you stopped half way through.

fieryeagle 13y ago
Read the whole thing and my opinion is now slightly more favourable yet I maintain my point of "see more, hear more". I get the author's standpoint yet it irks me that he seems to think the majority of web developers out there are overpaid for doing less than meaningful work. What about those who cursed the job day in day out but stuck with it for the paycheck while looking out? Do they question the same things? Yes, but getting paid this month is more important and no, other parts of the world don't usually get severance packages. The article is someone's opinion and I'm merely expressing my own as well. Everything is debatable because the industry is so much different from one city to another, let alone countries. Unless this is entirely dedicated to one part of the States, otherwise it is good but flawed argument.
- damoncali 13y ago
  I don't think he's suggesting they're overpaid. He's just wondering how much he's contributing to the world, despite his high pay and societal praise. If anything, I think it points out the fallacy of thinking that our pay and our personal interpretation of our "worth" are in actuality totally disconnected, although we may feel differently. He feels, I would imagine, some angst over the fact that his contribution to the world may not be worthy of the money he receives. It's an interesting point, and a tough one to wrestle with. Lots going on there.
  - fieryeagle 13y ago
    Very true, for that I wholeheartedly agree and I do admire his earnestness in pointing what many may have noticed but chosen to ignore anyway.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]