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Yet more overreach in the conclusions people take away from studies such as this. So there is an environmental factor in what IQ tests measure; this should not

Yet more overreach in the conclusions people take away from studies such as this. So there is an environmental factor in what IQ tests measure; this should not be a surprise to anyone. The study suggests that one's environment growing up affects your abstract reasoning ability. This in no way suggests that it is completely environmental. Height is largely genetic, we all know that. Yet height is also strongly affected by environment. In fact, if you don't feed a kid, they don't grow at all. This does not mean that height has 100% correlation with nutrition and thus zero correlation with genes! People need to be careful with drawing convenient conclusions from a small amount of data.

luxpir 13y ago
Just to clarify; the study doesn't say that intelligence is completely environmental, but the reporter draws the conclusion that IQ test results are 'mostly environment and experience', which I'll agree is a reach. But I'd welcome the study itself, further distancing us from the consensus, among what could well be the majority, that intelligence is innate and that IQ tests measure this quality.
Swizec 13y ago
Why is this a problem even? Why can't IQ be the result of both genes and the right environment and upbringing? Why is it any less valuable as a measure if it's affected by environment? Sure, there's more to "that person is clever" than just your raw computing power, but it's a pretty damn big factor.
netcan 13y ago
Here's the weasl-ey straw man (sort of): "..some thinkers cling to the idea that IQ measures an inborn intelligence that transcends culture and schooling. If that's true, one would expect that the most abstract, "culture free" elements of IQ testing wouldn't be subject to." The evidence supports common sense on the idea that environmental factors influence IQ (and intelligence) substantially. I doubt many "thinkers" disagree.
- Ygg2 13y ago
  The evidence also support that IQ test are really hard to do correctly. Some IQ test are better done by urban vs rural children and vice versa and it comes to what knowledge does IQ test verify and what method does it use. It's not as easy as saying its environment. Test makers suck at thinking outside their head and disabling their own knowledge expectations and biases.
  - einhverfr 13y ago
    I would question the premise actually that intelligence can be represented adequately by a single scalar quantity. a much better approach would be an n-dimensional vector. The problem you get with a scalar measurement is that you end up with weighing one component of intelligence against another. IQ tests don't spend all questions measuring the same exact skills of course, so you have to have a way of weighing one skill against another. That weight itself can only be culturally derived, and therefore IQ tests in their current form have no hope in measuring innate abilities on an apples to apples basis because in the end we are comparing apples to melons.[1] [1] Hats off to you if you got the pun, which will only be found through careful study, knowledge, and reading slowly.
    - Ygg2 13y ago
      You mean the weighting apples vs melons? If so, the box was a dead giveaway.
      - einhverfr 13y ago
        The pun is two-fold and juxtaposes Modern English and Classical Greek, which is part of what makes it relevant to my point ;-)
      - einhverfr 13y ago
        To explain, "melon" means "Apple" in Greek. So you can either compare two different languages, or two different fruit but you can't do both at the same time ;-)

luxpir 13y ago

Just to clarify; the study doesn't say that intelligence is completely environmental, but the reporter draws the conclusion that IQ test results are 'mostly environment and experience', which I'll agree is a reach. But I'd welcome the study itself, further distancing us from the consensus, among what could well be the majority, that intelligence is innate and that IQ tests measure this quality.

Swizec 13y ago

Why is this a problem even? Why can't IQ be the result of both genes and the right environment and upbringing? Why is it any less valuable as a measure if it's affected by environment? Sure, there's more to "that person is clever" than just your raw computing power, but it's a pretty damn big factor.

netcan 13y ago

Here's the weasl-ey straw man (sort of): "..some thinkers cling to the idea that IQ measures an inborn intelligence that transcends culture and schooling. If that's true, one would expect that the most abstract, "culture free" elements of IQ testing wouldn't be subject to." The evidence supports common sense on the idea that environmental factors influence IQ (and intelligence) substantially. I doubt many "thinkers" disagree.

Ygg2 13y ago
The evidence also support that IQ test are really hard to do correctly. Some IQ test are better done by urban vs rural children and vice versa and it comes to what knowledge does IQ test verify and what method does it use. It's not as easy as saying its environment. Test makers suck at thinking outside their head and disabling their own knowledge expectations and biases.
- einhverfr 13y ago
  I would question the premise actually that intelligence can be represented adequately by a single scalar quantity. a much better approach would be an n-dimensional vector. The problem you get with a scalar measurement is that you end up with weighing one component of intelligence against another. IQ tests don't spend all questions measuring the same exact skills of course, so you have to have a way of weighing one skill against another. That weight itself can only be culturally derived, and therefore IQ tests in their current form have no hope in measuring innate abilities on an apples to apples basis because in the end we are comparing apples to melons.[1] [1] Hats off to you if you got the pun, which will only be found through careful study, knowledge, and reading slowly.
  - Ygg2 13y ago
    You mean the weighting apples vs melons? If so, the box was a dead giveaway.
    - einhverfr 13y ago
      The pun is two-fold and juxtaposes Modern English and Classical Greek, which is part of what makes it relevant to my point ;-)
    - einhverfr 13y ago
      To explain, "melon" means "Apple" in Greek. So you can either compare two different languages, or two different fruit but you can't do both at the same time ;-)