6 ms·

I don't think this is an invasion of privacy at all. Heap hooks into single apps, it's not like it hooks into the OS to monitor user interaction with everything

I don't think this is an invasion of privacy at all. Heap hooks into single apps, it's not like it hooks into the OS to monitor user interaction with everything a user does in every app. I would sympathise with your reaction if this was the case. I think it's perfectly good enough for a vendor to declare what data they are collecting in their ToS e.g. "we collect information on how you use the app" and why, e.g. "to consider for future versions so that we release the best possible, most useful software for our users". It's absurd to mandate that this be communicated in "large block letters" as this makes it into a bigger deal than it is. Let's take off the tin foil hats and be pragmatic. I fully expect analytics to collected on everything I use and I understand the motivation behind it too, i.e. it's to improve whatever it is I am using to make it more useful, and therefore valuable to me.

deleted 13y ago
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irrationalidiom 13y ago
> I don't think this is an invasion of privacy at all. I vehemently disagree. Most companies will just hide the fact they are collecting (and often selling) user data within slimy legalese. Consumer protection includes niceties such as warranties, and protection against false advertising, and clear display of nutritional information and safety warnings. Privacy also deserves the same treatment so users can make an informed decision, without having to wade through a hefty licence agreement. Edit: updated reply context
- sjtgraham 13y ago
  - "Most companies" sell user data? "Slimy?" Incredible bias here. Wouldn't be so bad if you provided some evidence to support up your position. - ToS of don't have to be "hefty", they can be written in plain English. Try using facts instead of loaded, emotional language to support your argument next time.
  - anonyfuss 13y ago
    Companies I respect (including Apple) ask before gathering usage data; they don't hide it in the ToS that you and I both know nobody will read. Do you object to asking users? If so, why? My guess is that you know the answer will usually be "no". See also: opt-out vs. opt-in e-mail spam.
    - sjtgraham 13y ago
      By all means users should be asked for permission. I can't speak for others but I personally don't often read ToS and that is my choice. In the event that there is something there that I object to and I miss it because I didn't read something I was supposed to I'm not going to cry about it. What do you suppose the best way to ask for permission is? Please provide actual examples, perhaps from the companies you respect.
      - anonyfuss 13y ago
        > What do you suppose the best way to ask for permission is? Please provide actual examples, perhaps from the companies you respect. Literally ask for permission. That's what Apple does, as does almost every other traditional desktop software developer. On first launch, or when an error occurs, or when some other event that would involve sending personal/usage data to Apple occurs, they: - Ask if you want to send the data - Provide details on what kind of information will be sent (including, in some cases, providing access to the data itself) - ... and usually give you the option to always send that kind of data
        sjtgraham 13y ago
        I agree this is also a good way to ask for permission. Does Apple do this in iOS? I don't recall ever seeing it outside of OS X. I imagine it's difficult to clearly express why the app wants to send this data within the constraints of a UIAlertView. iOS asks for permission before exposing location information, or access to contacts/photos and I can see why, the information is highly private. I don't agree that "this user pressed this button at this time" quite fits into the same category of privacy though.

deleted 13y ago

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irrationalidiom 13y ago

> I don't think this is an invasion of privacy at all. I vehemently disagree. Most companies will just hide the fact they are collecting (and often selling) user data within slimy legalese. Consumer protection includes niceties such as warranties, and protection against false advertising, and clear display of nutritional information and safety warnings. Privacy also deserves the same treatment so users can make an informed decision, without having to wade through a hefty licence agreement. Edit: updated reply context

sjtgraham 13y ago
- "Most companies" sell user data? "Slimy?" Incredible bias here. Wouldn't be so bad if you provided some evidence to support up your position. - ToS of don't have to be "hefty", they can be written in plain English. Try using facts instead of loaded, emotional language to support your argument next time.
- anonyfuss 13y ago
  Companies I respect (including Apple) ask before gathering usage data; they don't hide it in the ToS that you and I both know nobody will read. Do you object to asking users? If so, why? My guess is that you know the answer will usually be "no". See also: opt-out vs. opt-in e-mail spam.
  - sjtgraham 13y ago
    By all means users should be asked for permission. I can't speak for others but I personally don't often read ToS and that is my choice. In the event that there is something there that I object to and I miss it because I didn't read something I was supposed to I'm not going to cry about it. What do you suppose the best way to ask for permission is? Please provide actual examples, perhaps from the companies you respect.
    - anonyfuss 13y ago
      > What do you suppose the best way to ask for permission is? Please provide actual examples, perhaps from the companies you respect. Literally ask for permission. That's what Apple does, as does almost every other traditional desktop software developer. On first launch, or when an error occurs, or when some other event that would involve sending personal/usage data to Apple occurs, they: - Ask if you want to send the data - Provide details on what kind of information will be sent (including, in some cases, providing access to the data itself) - ... and usually give you the option to always send that kind of data
      - sjtgraham 13y ago
        I agree this is also a good way to ask for permission. Does Apple do this in iOS? I don't recall ever seeing it outside of OS X. I imagine it's difficult to clearly express why the app wants to send this data within the constraints of a UIAlertView. iOS asks for permission before exposing location information, or access to contacts/photos and I can see why, the information is highly private. I don't agree that "this user pressed this button at this time" quite fits into the same category of privacy though.