4 ms·

Source? Academic sources only please.

by cpfohl 13y ago

pitay 13y ago
Here is a book which is full of them. It is called 'Harmful to Minors: The Perils of Protecting Children from Sex' by Judith Levine. http://www.amazon.com/Harmful-Minors-Perils-Protecting-Children/dp/B005UVULC6/ http://www.amazon.com/Harmful-Minors-Perils-Protecting-Child...
- 300bps 13y ago
  Pedophilia is about sexual attraction to prepubescent children (generally < 11 years old). See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia The book you reference appears to address post pubescent children and specifically mentions teenage sex being natural. It does not appear to address pedophilia.
  - gverri 13y ago
    That's the problem. It's not. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/us/florida-18-year-old-arrested-for-encounters-with-friend-14-gets-online-support.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/us/florida-18-year-old-arr...
    - 300bps 13y ago
      I don't see the word "pedophile" or anything even beginning with "pedo" in the entire article you think. Help me see the point you're trying to make.
hackinthebochs 13y ago
As an aside, this is why I love HN: the parent said something completely inflammatory (considering the prevalent opinion of society) and instead of immediately attacking and trying to paint him as evil, the default is to ask for sources. On just about any other sites on the internet the parent would have been completely roasted. I'm not one for requiring a fully cited research paper for random internet debates, and I think the "citation needed" meme is extremely tired and only serves to stifle discussion. But in this case it was totally appropriate and the only way to continue on a discussion like this productively.
- ellyagg 13y ago
  I guess I can't agree. In light of the delicacy of the subject matter, the question seemed designed to stifle debate. OC made several claims about which respondent could be asking for a source. I'll assume it's the claim that the reactions of other people causes the "damage" since that claim's implications are most relevant. To which I wonder: Can respondent provide academic sources demonstrating that societal or cultural response doesn't exacerbate (or largely cause) victims' feelings of acute horror? I have a couple of impressions about this. The average person isn't all that good at understanding where their feelings come from or separating whether they come from a specific event or the culture's evaluation of the rightness and wrongness of that event. I also notice that academics often have a hard time getting funding for things that might have unpopular results. One only need to review the comments section of any article that mentions pedophilia to know that citizens are united on both sides of the aisle regarding how we should feel about it. Unfortunately, most of our judgments in life still have to be made without the benefit of academic sources, simply because the number of such sources are rare and ambiguous signposts on the vast territory of decision-making we trek through. Instead we have to turn to other means of rationality. I happened to come across an interview with one self-aware victim who was able to separate the event from society's reactions to it. This kid Jody Plauche was molested by his karate coach. Later, after the coach was in custody, his dad Gary Plauche shot him to death. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Plauche http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Plauche ESPN had a good article about the case in which they interviewed Jody. And how did the boy feel? He was angry -- at his dad. "I didn't want him dead," says Jody Plauche, now 40. "I just wanted him to stop." Jody went on to be a four-sport letterman in high school, but the most important thing he's done is teach parents how to reduce the risk of pedophiles such as Doucet and Sandusky molesting their kids, through his work at a victims' services center in Norristown, Penn. "I got a letter once from a woman, who wrote, 'I told my daughter if somebody ever touches you inappropriately, it's not murder. It's worse than murder. It kills a child's soul.' So what's that little girl supposed to say if she ever gets molested?" says Plauche. "She doesn't want her soul to die. So she doesn't tell anybody." Jody's dad made the same mistake. "My dad was absolutely too extreme," Jody said. "He used to tell people, 'If anybody ever touches my kid, I'll kill him.' I knew he wasn't kidding. That's why I couldn't tell anybody. And that's exactly what he ended up doing." http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8486252/a-father-justice http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8486252/a-father-justice
gizmo686 13y ago
I didn't have the time to do the normal literature review I like to for random internet discussions (not being sarcastic), But [1] seems like a good place to start. [1] http://www.ipce.info/library_3/pdf/impact.pdf http://www.ipce.info/library_3/pdf/impact.pdf
anatoly 13y ago
The rather (in)famous academic source for some of this is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rind_et_al._controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rind_et_al._controversy A later paper that provides a list of statistical complaints against Rind et al., finds some of them plausible, but replicates the main findings of Rind et al. is http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/rbt_replica/frame.htm http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/rbt_replica/frame.htm
- gizmo686 13y ago
  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rind_et_al._controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rind_et_al._controversy That is probably the most disturbing thing I ever read. State and Federal legislatures unanimously condemned the study because it was used by a group they disagree with. I knew we were bad, but ... unanimously?

Source? Academic sources only please.

by cpfohl 13y ago

Source? Academic sources only please.

pitay 13y ago

Here is a book which is full of them. It is called 'Harmful to Minors: The Perils of Protecting Children from Sex' by Judith Levine. http://www.amazon.com/Harmful-Minors-Perils-Protecting-Children/dp/B005UVULC6/ http://www.amazon.com/Harmful-Minors-Perils-Protecting-Child...

300bps 13y ago
Pedophilia is about sexual attraction to prepubescent children (generally < 11 years old). See http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia The book you reference appears to address post pubescent children and specifically mentions teenage sex being natural. It does not appear to address pedophilia.
- gverri 13y ago
  That's the problem. It's not. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/us/florida-18-year-old-arrested-for-encounters-with-friend-14-gets-online-support.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/us/florida-18-year-old-arr...
  - 300bps 13y ago
    I don't see the word "pedophile" or anything even beginning with "pedo" in the entire article you think. Help me see the point you're trying to make.

hackinthebochs 13y ago

As an aside, this is why I love HN: the parent said something completely inflammatory (considering the prevalent opinion of society) and instead of immediately attacking and trying to paint him as evil, the default is to ask for sources. On just about any other sites on the internet the parent would have been completely roasted. I'm not one for requiring a fully cited research paper for random internet debates, and I think the "citation needed" meme is extremely tired and only serves to stifle discussion. But in this case it was totally appropriate and the only way to continue on a discussion like this productively.

ellyagg 13y ago
I guess I can't agree. In light of the delicacy of the subject matter, the question seemed designed to stifle debate. OC made several claims about which respondent could be asking for a source. I'll assume it's the claim that the reactions of other people causes the "damage" since that claim's implications are most relevant. To which I wonder: Can respondent provide academic sources demonstrating that societal or cultural response doesn't exacerbate (or largely cause) victims' feelings of acute horror? I have a couple of impressions about this. The average person isn't all that good at understanding where their feelings come from or separating whether they come from a specific event or the culture's evaluation of the rightness and wrongness of that event. I also notice that academics often have a hard time getting funding for things that might have unpopular results. One only need to review the comments section of any article that mentions pedophilia to know that citizens are united on both sides of the aisle regarding how we should feel about it. Unfortunately, most of our judgments in life still have to be made without the benefit of academic sources, simply because the number of such sources are rare and ambiguous signposts on the vast territory of decision-making we trek through. Instead we have to turn to other means of rationality. I happened to come across an interview with one self-aware victim who was able to separate the event from society's reactions to it. This kid Jody Plauche was molested by his karate coach. Later, after the coach was in custody, his dad Gary Plauche shot him to death. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Plauche http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Plauche ESPN had a good article about the case in which they interviewed Jody. And how did the boy feel? He was angry -- at his dad. "I didn't want him dead," says Jody Plauche, now 40. "I just wanted him to stop." Jody went on to be a four-sport letterman in high school, but the most important thing he's done is teach parents how to reduce the risk of pedophiles such as Doucet and Sandusky molesting their kids, through his work at a victims' services center in Norristown, Penn. "I got a letter once from a woman, who wrote, 'I told my daughter if somebody ever touches you inappropriately, it's not murder. It's worse than murder. It kills a child's soul.' So what's that little girl supposed to say if she ever gets molested?" says Plauche. "She doesn't want her soul to die. So she doesn't tell anybody." Jody's dad made the same mistake. "My dad was absolutely too extreme," Jody said. "He used to tell people, 'If anybody ever touches my kid, I'll kill him.' I knew he wasn't kidding. That's why I couldn't tell anybody. And that's exactly what he ended up doing." http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8486252/a-father-justice http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8486252/a-father-justice

gizmo686 13y ago

I didn't have the time to do the normal literature review I like to for random internet discussions (not being sarcastic), But [1] seems like a good place to start. [1] http://www.ipce.info/library_3/pdf/impact.pdf http://www.ipce.info/library_3/pdf/impact.pdf

anatoly 13y ago

The rather (in)famous academic source for some of this is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rind_et_al._controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rind_et_al._controversy A later paper that provides a list of statistical complaints against Rind et al., finds some of them plausible, but replicates the main findings of Rind et al. is http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/rbt_replica/frame.htm http://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/rbt_replica/frame.htm

gizmo686 13y ago
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rind_et_al._controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rind_et_al._controversy That is probably the most disturbing thing I ever read. State and Federal legislatures unanimously condemned the study because it was used by a group they disagree with. I knew we were bad, but ... unanimously?