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Solar and wind are ways off replacing nuclear and fossil fuels. There is no way we could switch to solar/wind without moving to the 1800's. There are many tech

Solar and wind are ways off replacing nuclear and fossil fuels. There is no way we could switch to solar/wind without moving to the 1800's. There are many technological and economic issues with large scale solar/wind. We need to build better grids, we need storage for when sun doesn't shine and wind doesn't blow... Realistically we are at least 20 years from the point where renewables could overcome fossil. And that is assuming optimistic scenario. If we plowed all this funding into nuclear power research we would get far more out of our investment. e.g.: You can use (advanced) nuclear power anywhere, while solar and wind are less than suitable for outer space applications, etc. This is why I feel that people that support "green" agenda are hurting environment and our species.

VLM 13y ago
"There is no way we could switch to solar/wind without moving to the 1800's." That is false in that the system currently cannot do it because we've promised 100% uptime and all the users have designed around perhaps 99% uptime. Lower uptime on the coasts, much higher in civilized areas (Dang near 100% by the great lakes, for example, where interestingly AC power has been much more reliable than UPS/generator transfer switches) That is, obviously, a stable and profitable system design. Multi-generationally, we could move to a system that can insta-shed perhaps 99% of load. Suddenly its not so hard. I've done stuff with CAD/CAM machines. They don't like power interruptions because ignoring the problem is simpler than dealing with them. There's no technological reason why a next gen system can't have a functionality like "Hey, your power is shutting off in 5 seconds, so go into controlled shutdown mode and prepare to instantly come out of power saving mode momentarily". This isn't someone from the outside speculating but someone from the inside describing. I would imagine a reasonably intelligent HVAC system talking to a smart enough grid could coordinate such that during worst case intervals they're off. My phone has 8 or so hours at night to do its 30 minute or so top off charge, so why does it draw full power when the grid is stressed? Yeah that's just a couple watts, but 400 million 10 watt phones and tablets adds up to quite a draw. Laptop draw is even more impressive. Why isn't every installed UPS legally or contractually required to be a smart grid controllable grid tie inverter on demand? I sympathize that its harder to design an aluminum refinery to insta drop. Too bad, do it anyway. That limited hydro power is going to be needed by the hospital patients, traffic lights, SOME telecom gear, etc. Interestingly the improved insulation and control and dumping gear has the opportunity to lower overall energy use and possibly increase safety if done right. (edited to add that only EEs are going to understand what this means, but a law that any plug in device with an effective negative resistance must implement full remotely controllable high speed low latency smart grid tech would go a heck of a long way toward grid stability in a renewables situation)
- JanezStupar 13y ago
  So we just deprecate all the existing machines, factories and infrastructure? Your proposal is as impractical as proposals for urban hydroponics.
- nitrogen 13y ago
  Why isn't every installed UPS legally or contractually required to be a smart grid controllable grid tie inverter on demand? Probably because that would be really freaking expensive. Why go to all the expensive failure-prone trouble of making it easier to interrupt people's work and lives, instead of taking the cheaper, easier route of building reliable base load power generation? That's just another case of making the public bear the costs of a centralized benefit, just like fossil fuels' externalized costs.

VLM 13y ago

"There is no way we could switch to solar/wind without moving to the 1800's." That is false in that the system currently cannot do it because we've promised 100% uptime and all the users have designed around perhaps 99% uptime. Lower uptime on the coasts, much higher in civilized areas (Dang near 100% by the great lakes, for example, where interestingly AC power has been much more reliable than UPS/generator transfer switches) That is, obviously, a stable and profitable system design. Multi-generationally, we could move to a system that can insta-shed perhaps 99% of load. Suddenly its not so hard. I've done stuff with CAD/CAM machines. They don't like power interruptions because ignoring the problem is simpler than dealing with them. There's no technological reason why a next gen system can't have a functionality like "Hey, your power is shutting off in 5 seconds, so go into controlled shutdown mode and prepare to instantly come out of power saving mode momentarily". This isn't someone from the outside speculating but someone from the inside describing. I would imagine a reasonably intelligent HVAC system talking to a smart enough grid could coordinate such that during worst case intervals they're off. My phone has 8 or so hours at night to do its 30 minute or so top off charge, so why does it draw full power when the grid is stressed? Yeah that's just a couple watts, but 400 million 10 watt phones and tablets adds up to quite a draw. Laptop draw is even more impressive. Why isn't every installed UPS legally or contractually required to be a smart grid controllable grid tie inverter on demand? I sympathize that its harder to design an aluminum refinery to insta drop. Too bad, do it anyway. That limited hydro power is going to be needed by the hospital patients, traffic lights, SOME telecom gear, etc. Interestingly the improved insulation and control and dumping gear has the opportunity to lower overall energy use and possibly increase safety if done right. (edited to add that only EEs are going to understand what this means, but a law that any plug in device with an effective negative resistance must implement full remotely controllable high speed low latency smart grid tech would go a heck of a long way toward grid stability in a renewables situation)

JanezStupar 13y ago
So we just deprecate all the existing machines, factories and infrastructure? Your proposal is as impractical as proposals for urban hydroponics.
nitrogen 13y ago
Why isn't every installed UPS legally or contractually required to be a smart grid controllable grid tie inverter on demand? Probably because that would be really freaking expensive. Why go to all the expensive failure-prone trouble of making it easier to interrupt people's work and lives, instead of taking the cheaper, easier route of building reliable base load power generation? That's just another case of making the public bear the costs of a centralized benefit, just like fossil fuels' externalized costs.