4 ms·

Indeed. One of the fascinating things if you read the dissent (which I highly recommend, it's very approachable) is that the national electronic fingerprint dat

by JunkDNA 13y ago

Indeed. One of the fascinating things if you read the dissent (which I highly recommend, it's very approachable) is that the national electronic fingerprint databases have not actually ever been constitutionally tested on 4th amendment grounds. In my mind this falls into the same category as "searching" someone's smartphone if you arrest them. There's no analog for that. It's so fundamentally different, that you have to treat it differently than just looking through a backpack or something.

jlgreco 13y ago
> In my mind this falls into the same category as "searching" someone's smartphone if you arrest them. There's no analog for that. Strangely, this is a case where "cloud" stuff could actually help. You can't search somebodies rented apartment just because you found his access device for said apartment in his pockets when you arrested him. Similarly, why should you be permitted to search his rented "cloud" just because you found his access device? This is imperfect since clearly local data should be protected from such searches as well, but it is fairly accessible. For this matter, I'd love to see someone push for an equivalent of renters rights in all things digital...
- JunkDNA 13y ago
  I disagree, I think the cloud stuff actually makes this even harder (at least today). The distinction between what's in the cloud and what is local is extremely hard to make, even for those of us that live and breathe this stuff. Oh sure, you can define it, but as a practical matter, if I hand you my phone, can you tell what's on the cloud? Is it left to the vagaries of what the OS has happened to cache locally? If you open my Dropbox app on my phone, how do you know what files are local and what files aren't? What if you see a filename like "drug_customer_list" in the directory listing? Can you go get it now that you have probable cause? It's murky and messy. We can pretend that it's simple, but it's not and we will need to work all of this out.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Pretending as though it is simple is the trick though. The reality is simple: don't search the phone without a fucking warrant. However this is a reality that is rejected by those with no incentive to realize it. What is needed is a fictional simplicity that is easier to feed people. After we have that we can work on getting the rest done properly.

by JunkDNA 13y ago

jlgreco 13y ago

> In my mind this falls into the same category as "searching" someone's smartphone if you arrest them. There's no analog for that. Strangely, this is a case where "cloud" stuff could actually help. You can't search somebodies rented apartment just because you found his access device for said apartment in his pockets when you arrested him. Similarly, why should you be permitted to search his rented "cloud" just because you found his access device? This is imperfect since clearly local data should be protected from such searches as well, but it is fairly accessible. For this matter, I'd love to see someone push for an equivalent of renters rights in all things digital...

JunkDNA 13y ago
I disagree, I think the cloud stuff actually makes this even harder (at least today). The distinction between what's in the cloud and what is local is extremely hard to make, even for those of us that live and breathe this stuff. Oh sure, you can define it, but as a practical matter, if I hand you my phone, can you tell what's on the cloud? Is it left to the vagaries of what the OS has happened to cache locally? If you open my Dropbox app on my phone, how do you know what files are local and what files aren't? What if you see a filename like "drug_customer_list" in the directory listing? Can you go get it now that you have probable cause? It's murky and messy. We can pretend that it's simple, but it's not and we will need to work all of this out.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Pretending as though it is simple is the trick though. The reality is simple: don't search the phone without a fucking warrant. However this is a reality that is rejected by those with no incentive to realize it. What is needed is a fictional simplicity that is easier to feed people. After we have that we can work on getting the rest done properly.