4 ms·

>But you're right, that clearly the "devs" have preferences. The problem with your mechanism is that they don't express them to you in customer service requests

>But you're right, that clearly the "devs" have preferences. The problem with your mechanism is that they don't express them to you in customer service requests. They just job-hop to another environment, doing Javascript work, or Linux, or Ruby. And you never hear from them. >Basically, the way feedback works in this world is with feet, not bug reports. If you build it they will come. If you don't they will leave. Is there any quantifiable metric to measure this so called exodus beyond anecdotes and the ".NET is dying" posts on here? If there was an IDE for .NET on par with VS, it will definitely see uptake regardless of suits.

ajross 13y ago
Well, just to address the first point there is undeniably an "exodus" from Visual Studio. Just look at all the code shipped to run in browsers, or iOS, or Android, or on node or rails. A decade and a half ago a far (far!) greater fraction of that was spend in a Microsoft IDE. But that's really not the point. The upstream discussion was much narrower, and focused specifically on C/C++ support, which frankly sucks in the windows world compared to the renaissance we're seeing in Unix with our dueling multi-architecture full-support C++11 implementations. I'm not nearly expert enough to comment on how good or innovative the .NET support in VS is, but I'm perfectly willing to believe it's great.
- MartinCron 13y ago
  Just look at all the code shipped to run in browsers... I use Visual Studio ship code to run in browsers every day.
- rpgmaker 13y ago
  And HN is hardly representative of the software industry at large.
- jf22 13y ago
  Undeniably? Not quite. Your reasoning is really faulty because you aren't accounting for overall growth in the industry. If the world Irish population increases by 20% does this mean that the Asian population shrunk? Of course not. Consider that Tablet and Smartphone platforms are in addition to flat PC sales. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/feb/01/tablets-crossing-point-pcs http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/feb/01/tablets-cro... http://www.wcu.edu/ceap/houghton/edelcompeduc/ch1/handhelds/mobile-sales_business-insider.jpg http://www.wcu.edu/ceap/houghton/edelcompeduc/ch1/handhelds/... Same goes for the world wide web in general. http://www.businessinsider.com/how-many-web-sites-are-are-there-2012-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/how-many-web-sites-are-are-th... You can't say logically that because there are more rails sites there are less Microsoft ones. C# is pretty popular here: http://langpop.corger.nl/ http://langpop.corger.nl/ here as well: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.... And that doesn't count non-C# .net ecosystem languages. Could there be an exodus? Sure, but your reasoning is just wrong here.
  - ajross 13y ago
    Did you miss the bit where I said the "exodus" (I even used scare quotes!) wasn't the point?
    - jf22 13y ago
      I think so. Haha. Sarcasm detector is on the fritz.
- malkia 13y ago
  Almost all video games are produced in Visual Studio, more or less. Even the one for Sony/Wii (plugins/extensions in Visual Studio, etc, although using different compilers). That accounts for a lot of software out there. And no, I don't like Visual Studio, but it's the best tool out there for the majority of the people I work with.
qu4z-2 13y ago
For what it's worth, I've been using SharpDevelop almost full-time at work. Then again, I'm more of a Linux guy working at a .Net shop because "Hey, why not. C# is nice enough"

ajross 13y ago

Well, just to address the first point there is undeniably an "exodus" from Visual Studio. Just look at all the code shipped to run in browsers, or iOS, or Android, or on node or rails. A decade and a half ago a far (far!) greater fraction of that was spend in a Microsoft IDE. But that's really not the point. The upstream discussion was much narrower, and focused specifically on C/C++ support, which frankly sucks in the windows world compared to the renaissance we're seeing in Unix with our dueling multi-architecture full-support C++11 implementations. I'm not nearly expert enough to comment on how good or innovative the .NET support in VS is, but I'm perfectly willing to believe it's great.

MartinCron 13y ago
Just look at all the code shipped to run in browsers... I use Visual Studio ship code to run in browsers every day.
rpgmaker 13y ago
And HN is hardly representative of the software industry at large.
jf22 13y ago
Undeniably? Not quite. Your reasoning is really faulty because you aren't accounting for overall growth in the industry. If the world Irish population increases by 20% does this mean that the Asian population shrunk? Of course not. Consider that Tablet and Smartphone platforms are in addition to flat PC sales. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/feb/01/tablets-crossing-point-pcs http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/feb/01/tablets-cro... http://www.wcu.edu/ceap/houghton/edelcompeduc/ch1/handhelds/mobile-sales_business-insider.jpg http://www.wcu.edu/ceap/houghton/edelcompeduc/ch1/handhelds/... Same goes for the world wide web in general. http://www.businessinsider.com/how-many-web-sites-are-are-there-2012-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/how-many-web-sites-are-are-th... You can't say logically that because there are more rails sites there are less Microsoft ones. C# is pretty popular here: http://langpop.corger.nl/ http://langpop.corger.nl/ here as well: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.... And that doesn't count non-C# .net ecosystem languages. Could there be an exodus? Sure, but your reasoning is just wrong here.
- ajross 13y ago
  Did you miss the bit where I said the "exodus" (I even used scare quotes!) wasn't the point?
  - jf22 13y ago
    I think so. Haha. Sarcasm detector is on the fritz.
malkia 13y ago
Almost all video games are produced in Visual Studio, more or less. Even the one for Sony/Wii (plugins/extensions in Visual Studio, etc, although using different compilers). That accounts for a lot of software out there. And no, I don't like Visual Studio, but it's the best tool out there for the majority of the people I work with.

qu4z-2 13y ago

For what it's worth, I've been using SharpDevelop almost full-time at work. Then again, I'm more of a Linux guy working at a .Net shop because "Hey, why not. C# is nice enough"