5 ms·

There is some good stuff in there, but also a number of tautologies and platitudes, e.g. "Make something people want." This is a great sound bite, but it's no

by diego 13y ago

There is some good stuff in there, but also a number of tautologies and platitudes, e.g. "Make something people want." This is a great sound bite, but it's not really actionable advice. Same as "don't die" or "get lucky." If you start a company unaware that you need to make something someone will want, you have no business doing so. Furthermore, it's absolutely nontrivial to start out making something people want. A better piece of advice (still flawed) would be: develop a process to make sure you don't deviate from building something people want, and/or converge towards something people want. You can always rewrite history (e.g. Twitter, Google) and make it look like you always knew that you were building something people wanted. In reality, Google tried to sell itself to Yahoo for $1M in 1999 (and Yahoo said no). Those of us who were around at the time remember this. I find it very dangerous to "tweet-wrap" advice that is the result of long slogs, and requires context. "Don't die" or "get lucky" sort of make sense if you know the back story. Otherwise you might as well say things like "grow wings" or "remember you always have a friend in the diamond business."

maxmcd 13y ago
You would most certainly be right if there was no context for those pieces of advice, but they're part of a large list that I think paints a pretty compelling picture. Soundbites are also nice because they provide quick reference points and mental footholds when you're thinking and working through problems. I'll also refer you to #46 regarding your better piece of advice.
- diego 13y ago
  You might as well refer the OP. We both used the word exactly once, nitpicker :) I agree with that one, having taken a class on the topic at CMU in the 90s (which was mostly a waste of time). The same can be applied to most other bullshit startup terms.
Swizec 13y ago
But people often forget to make something people want and instead make something they think people want. Therein lies the incredibly actionable advice of the 4 word statement. In fact, a lot of my technologically and ideally awesome projects falter at the step where I need to find out what type of people would want this, how they'd want it wrapped up and how the hell will I reach them.
- baddox 13y ago
  > But people often forget to make something people want and instead make something they think people want. That is a nonsensical statement. A person cannot make decisions based on something other than what they think.
  - Swizec 13y ago
    sigh and people wonder why us nerds/geeks are so difficult to talk to. Stop nitpicking and read what I said, then interpret it. Point is, you can either make decisions on what you think, or you can come up with hypotheses and find hard evidence that supports them. In fact, people often go with evidence in spite of their innate biases, thus making decisions based on what they don't think.
  - smartician 13y ago
    Two words: External validation. Ask your friends, ask in forums, do surveys, or even run Adsense campaigns to static landing pages just to see how the click through rates are (Tim Ferris style). Sure, this is not 100% bullet proof (what people think they want vs. what the actually want) and the results can be misinterpreted, but it's still more likely to succeed than just building whatever you think is cool.
    - einhverfr 13y ago
      "Would you pay $X for this useful little app?" doesn't work so well though because there is the judgement/action gap. External validation doesn't work as well as we might think. Much better advice in my view is this: Identify a problem and build a solution to that problem.
      - Swizec 13y ago
        And confirm people will pay $X for it before you spend two years of your life and your life savings and your parents' savings and your friends' savings. Payment from real live users/clients/customers is external validation too.
jonnathanson 13y ago
"If you start a company unaware that you need to make something someone will want, you have no business doing so." Well, yes. That being said, as with many cliches, this one's a cliche for a reason. You'd be surprised how many entrepreneurs set out to make a cool product first, and a solution second. It's surprisingly easy to build a product -- even a beautiful, elegant, simple one -- that just doesn't solve or do anything useful for anyone in particular. It's very easy to mistake elegance, qua elegance, for utility. Elegance doesn't necessarily imply utility, but many fall into that trap. The mantra "Make something people want" is better expressed as "Make something useful." Or, perhaps, "Make something that solves a need." Don't build a hammer and then go looking for nails. The rest of your post ("Furthermore..." onward), I completely agree with.
- baddox 13y ago
  > You'd be surprised how many entrepreneurs set out to make a cool product first, and a solution second. It's surprisingly easy to build a product -- even a beautiful, elegant, simple one -- that just doesn't solve or do anything useful for anyone in particular. True, but which of the following do you think was the problem? 1. The entrepreneurs did not know that they should make a product people want. 2. The entrepreneurs did not know that no one would want their product.
- einhverfr 13y ago
  What? You mean that solutions are more wanted than cool products? The problem with the saying is it doesn't address that obvious misunderstanding, which is why I propose changing it to "Make something useful."
  - jonnathanson 13y ago
    "What? You mean that solutions are more wanted than cool products?" No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that "cool" is relative to the customer's needs. There is no such thing as an objectively cool or objectively interesting product. It is the user who determines whether something is cool/wanted, and the coolness/need is determined by the degree to which the product solves something. I'm not using the word "solution" in the sense of B2B jargon. I'm using it in the sense that you have a Need, and you have a Fulfillment/Resolution of that Need. The need could be trivial, or it could be major. It could be for business utility or for personal entertainment. It could be a need you didn't know you had, or a need you had but weren't totally cognizant of until the solution articulated (and solved) it. Or it could be a need that's been plain and aching for a long time.
swampthing 13y ago
Hmm, is it dangerous though? Presumably, if the advice is not considered by the listener to be actionable, no harm would come of it. It seems the more common case would be that the listener might seek further clarification and come to understand the context. At that point, having the advice condensed into a one-liner is beneficial because it's easy to remember (and thus has a greater likelihood of being followed).
pbreit 13y ago
"Make something people want." That is extremely actionable advice. I witness lots of founders talk about all sorts of things except that and it's pretty easy to predict failure.
infinitone 13y ago
> In reality, Google tried to sell itself to Yahoo for $1M in 1999 (and Yahoo said no). Those of us who were around at the time remember this. Wow I never knew this. Care to expand further?
rtfeldman 13y ago
That's not tautological. There are plenty of defensible business activities you can spend your time on (e.g. "reduce waste", "increase brand awareness") that don't bring you closer to making something people want. Nor is it "tweet-wrapped" so much as concise. You said a better piece of advice was "develop a process..." but that's just a longer-winded way of giving the same advice. Is that better? Occam argues it's worse. You're right that it's nontrivial to start out making something people want, but the value of the advice is to keep you focused when you're being pulled in different directions. If you're unsure how to proceed, default to the path that takes you closer to making something that people want. It's a feature, not a defect, that translating this advice into a specific plan necessitates pondering how to get from your present position to that one.
david927 13y ago
Saying "Make something people want." is like saying to a music composer, "Make something people will want to hear; make a hit." What will they make? Justin Bieber pop fluff that's forgotten the next day. A lot of the startups I see are just that. They're vapid and have little insight. True innovation comes from a different place than looking for acceptance.
- einhverfr 13y ago
  Indeed. I would say much better advice is Make something useful. It's easy to get people to want useful things. If you can focus on solving needs and headaches for people they will want what you offer. I would add you could expand that to, "when evaluating a potential new product ask, 'Who will find this useful?' and 'Who needs this?'"
- mietek 13y ago
  It's slighty more complex. You're talking about asking people what they want, then building it. "A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them." — Steve Jobs

by diego 13y ago

maxmcd 13y ago

You would most certainly be right if there was no context for those pieces of advice, but they're part of a large list that I think paints a pretty compelling picture. Soundbites are also nice because they provide quick reference points and mental footholds when you're thinking and working through problems. I'll also refer you to #46 regarding your better piece of advice.

diego 13y ago
You might as well refer the OP. We both used the word exactly once, nitpicker :) I agree with that one, having taken a class on the topic at CMU in the 90s (which was mostly a waste of time). The same can be applied to most other bullshit startup terms.

Swizec 13y ago

But people often forget to make something people want and instead make something they think people want. Therein lies the incredibly actionable advice of the 4 word statement. In fact, a lot of my technologically and ideally awesome projects falter at the step where I need to find out what type of people would want this, how they'd want it wrapped up and how the hell will I reach them.

baddox 13y ago
> But people often forget to make something people want and instead make something they think people want. That is a nonsensical statement. A person cannot make decisions based on something other than what they think.
- Swizec 13y ago
  sigh and people wonder why us nerds/geeks are so difficult to talk to. Stop nitpicking and read what I said, then interpret it. Point is, you can either make decisions on what you think, or you can come up with hypotheses and find hard evidence that supports them. In fact, people often go with evidence in spite of their innate biases, thus making decisions based on what they don't think.
- smartician 13y ago
  Two words: External validation. Ask your friends, ask in forums, do surveys, or even run Adsense campaigns to static landing pages just to see how the click through rates are (Tim Ferris style). Sure, this is not 100% bullet proof (what people think they want vs. what the actually want) and the results can be misinterpreted, but it's still more likely to succeed than just building whatever you think is cool.
  - einhverfr 13y ago
    "Would you pay $X for this useful little app?" doesn't work so well though because there is the judgement/action gap. External validation doesn't work as well as we might think. Much better advice in my view is this: Identify a problem and build a solution to that problem.
    - Swizec 13y ago
      And confirm people will pay $X for it before you spend two years of your life and your life savings and your parents' savings and your friends' savings. Payment from real live users/clients/customers is external validation too.

jonnathanson 13y ago

"If you start a company unaware that you need to make something someone will want, you have no business doing so." Well, yes. That being said, as with many cliches, this one's a cliche for a reason. You'd be surprised how many entrepreneurs set out to make a cool product first, and a solution second. It's surprisingly easy to build a product -- even a beautiful, elegant, simple one -- that just doesn't solve or do anything useful for anyone in particular. It's very easy to mistake elegance, qua elegance, for utility. Elegance doesn't necessarily imply utility, but many fall into that trap. The mantra "Make something people want" is better expressed as "Make something useful." Or, perhaps, "Make something that solves a need." Don't build a hammer and then go looking for nails. The rest of your post ("Furthermore..." onward), I completely agree with.

baddox 13y ago
> You'd be surprised how many entrepreneurs set out to make a cool product first, and a solution second. It's surprisingly easy to build a product -- even a beautiful, elegant, simple one -- that just doesn't solve or do anything useful for anyone in particular. True, but which of the following do you think was the problem? 1. The entrepreneurs did not know that they should make a product people want. 2. The entrepreneurs did not know that no one would want their product.
einhverfr 13y ago
What? You mean that solutions are more wanted than cool products? The problem with the saying is it doesn't address that obvious misunderstanding, which is why I propose changing it to "Make something useful."
- jonnathanson 13y ago
  "What? You mean that solutions are more wanted than cool products?" No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that "cool" is relative to the customer's needs. There is no such thing as an objectively cool or objectively interesting product. It is the user who determines whether something is cool/wanted, and the coolness/need is determined by the degree to which the product solves something. I'm not using the word "solution" in the sense of B2B jargon. I'm using it in the sense that you have a Need, and you have a Fulfillment/Resolution of that Need. The need could be trivial, or it could be major. It could be for business utility or for personal entertainment. It could be a need you didn't know you had, or a need you had but weren't totally cognizant of until the solution articulated (and solved) it. Or it could be a need that's been plain and aching for a long time.

swampthing 13y ago

Hmm, is it dangerous though? Presumably, if the advice is not considered by the listener to be actionable, no harm would come of it. It seems the more common case would be that the listener might seek further clarification and come to understand the context. At that point, having the advice condensed into a one-liner is beneficial because it's easy to remember (and thus has a greater likelihood of being followed).

pbreit 13y ago

"Make something people want." That is extremely actionable advice. I witness lots of founders talk about all sorts of things except that and it's pretty easy to predict failure.

infinitone 13y ago

> In reality, Google tried to sell itself to Yahoo for $1M in 1999 (and Yahoo said no). Those of us who were around at the time remember this. Wow I never knew this. Care to expand further?

rtfeldman 13y ago

That's not tautological. There are plenty of defensible business activities you can spend your time on (e.g. "reduce waste", "increase brand awareness") that don't bring you closer to making something people want. Nor is it "tweet-wrapped" so much as concise. You said a better piece of advice was "develop a process..." but that's just a longer-winded way of giving the same advice. Is that better? Occam argues it's worse. You're right that it's nontrivial to start out making something people want, but the value of the advice is to keep you focused when you're being pulled in different directions. If you're unsure how to proceed, default to the path that takes you closer to making something that people want. It's a feature, not a defect, that translating this advice into a specific plan necessitates pondering how to get from your present position to that one.

david927 13y ago

Saying "Make something people want." is like saying to a music composer, "Make something people will want to hear; make a hit." What will they make? Justin Bieber pop fluff that's forgotten the next day. A lot of the startups I see are just that. They're vapid and have little insight. True innovation comes from a different place than looking for acceptance.

einhverfr 13y ago
Indeed. I would say much better advice is Make something useful. It's easy to get people to want useful things. If you can focus on solving needs and headaches for people they will want what you offer. I would add you could expand that to, "when evaluating a potential new product ask, 'Who will find this useful?' and 'Who needs this?'"
mietek 13y ago
It's slighty more complex. You're talking about asking people what they want, then building it. "A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them." — Steve Jobs