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I'm graduating college with a BS is software eng next year so this grabs my attention. Programmers of the real world: Is it this bad? I can't imagine that it ca

by drfurly 13y ago

I'm graduating college with a BS is software eng next year so this grabs my attention. Programmers of the real world: Is it this bad? I can't imagine that it can be. I enjoy what I do. I even often enjoy frustrating programming assignments. Can a job really be that bad? I'm inclined to say that this attitude that we (programmers) are better than regularly jobs is a little too forward thinking.

potatolicious 13y ago
No, it's really not this bad. I "sell my time" for a living and I frakkin' love it. I work with really talented people I respect and love, working on interesting products that I like, with little to no bullshittery. It's not like this everywhere, but these spots in the industry exist, and if you're halfway decent at what you do, they will want you also. As rayiner said also, entrepreneurship is also "selling your time" - you're just trying to sell it at a very high price with no guarantee that anyone will end up paying you for that time. There is also no guarantee in entrepreneurship that you'll spend a substantial portion of your time doing things you enjoy. A lot of startup life is thankless toil. Putting together a startup is a lot more than writing some code and slapping together some designs - as a founder you will go neck-deep in territory you do not enjoy, whether that's sales, marketing, business development, design, or something else.
- rayiner 13y ago
  > There is also no guarantee in entrepreneurship that you'll spend a substantial portion of your time doing things you enjoy. If your start-up turns into a successful business with real customers, you almost certainly won't. At the start up I worked for, I watched as the founder quickly became too important to do much if any technical work. Can't very well spend time sitting and futzing with algorithms when you're busy making PowerPoint presentations and poring over contracts.
dwb 13y ago
No, jobs can be great, and if you're anything like me you greatly value the security, built-in social nature, team spirit, and the sorting out of all the boring crap (accounts, admin, even cleaning) by other people. I could probably make a bunch more money as a contractor, but money isn't everything by a long shot. You do have to pick the right company, though. Do your research and follow your instincts about the culture. Good luck!
nobodysfool 13y ago
I think it's just bad advice. Yes, jobs 'suck'. That's why they pay you. If it were awesomely fun, you'd probably do it without getting paid. Making something is great, but let's be honest here, most college graduates aren't going to change the world. You might make a piece of software and sell a moderate amount to make a decent amount of money, but your chances of becoming a multi-millionaire is less than 0.3%. So, taking a job gives you the financial stability that you'll enjoy when you have a wife and chidren and health problems. If you are young and have none of those things, go for it - build a product, make a startup. I think the best advice to give a college student is: Invest in your company's 401k if they offer one, put in at a minimum the maximum amount that will be matched, and live frugally. It would also help, if you are getting a BS in software, that you invest your 401k in software companies, since that's your field of expertise, and you want to remain employed, don't you?
R_Edward 13y ago
I've been "selling my time" for 27 years, and if I had it to do over, I'd do it again. Probably for different employers, probably with some sort of career strategy, but I'd definitely do it again. Why? because to succeed, an entrepreneur needs to be more than a great software developer (or whatever other product you want to create and sell). An entrepreneur needs a number of business skills, like crafting policies, schmoozing vendors, wooing customers... Those aren't my strong suits. I am perfectly content to let someone else handle all the business stuff, and pay me an agreeable salary to handle the software end of things. That gives me the freedom to shine at design, development, user-education, and self-improvement. If someone who doesn't know me wants to dismiss that as "selling my time," well, that's his problem, not mine.

by drfurly 13y ago

potatolicious 13y ago

No, it's really not this bad. I "sell my time" for a living and I frakkin' love it. I work with really talented people I respect and love, working on interesting products that I like, with little to no bullshittery. It's not like this everywhere, but these spots in the industry exist, and if you're halfway decent at what you do, they will want you also. As rayiner said also, entrepreneurship is also "selling your time" - you're just trying to sell it at a very high price with no guarantee that anyone will end up paying you for that time. There is also no guarantee in entrepreneurship that you'll spend a substantial portion of your time doing things you enjoy. A lot of startup life is thankless toil. Putting together a startup is a lot more than writing some code and slapping together some designs - as a founder you will go neck-deep in territory you do not enjoy, whether that's sales, marketing, business development, design, or something else.

rayiner 13y ago
> There is also no guarantee in entrepreneurship that you'll spend a substantial portion of your time doing things you enjoy. If your start-up turns into a successful business with real customers, you almost certainly won't. At the start up I worked for, I watched as the founder quickly became too important to do much if any technical work. Can't very well spend time sitting and futzing with algorithms when you're busy making PowerPoint presentations and poring over contracts.

dwb 13y ago

No, jobs can be great, and if you're anything like me you greatly value the security, built-in social nature, team spirit, and the sorting out of all the boring crap (accounts, admin, even cleaning) by other people. I could probably make a bunch more money as a contractor, but money isn't everything by a long shot. You do have to pick the right company, though. Do your research and follow your instincts about the culture. Good luck!

nobodysfool 13y ago

I think it's just bad advice. Yes, jobs 'suck'. That's why they pay you. If it were awesomely fun, you'd probably do it without getting paid. Making something is great, but let's be honest here, most college graduates aren't going to change the world. You might make a piece of software and sell a moderate amount to make a decent amount of money, but your chances of becoming a multi-millionaire is less than 0.3%. So, taking a job gives you the financial stability that you'll enjoy when you have a wife and chidren and health problems. If you are young and have none of those things, go for it - build a product, make a startup. I think the best advice to give a college student is: Invest in your company's 401k if they offer one, put in at a minimum the maximum amount that will be matched, and live frugally. It would also help, if you are getting a BS in software, that you invest your 401k in software companies, since that's your field of expertise, and you want to remain employed, don't you?

R_Edward 13y ago

I've been "selling my time" for 27 years, and if I had it to do over, I'd do it again. Probably for different employers, probably with some sort of career strategy, but I'd definitely do it again. Why? because to succeed, an entrepreneur needs to be more than a great software developer (or whatever other product you want to create and sell). An entrepreneur needs a number of business skills, like crafting policies, schmoozing vendors, wooing customers... Those aren't my strong suits. I am perfectly content to let someone else handle all the business stuff, and pay me an agreeable salary to handle the software end of things. That gives me the freedom to shine at design, development, user-education, and self-improvement. If someone who doesn't know me wants to dismiss that as "selling my time," well, that's his problem, not mine.