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Shouldn't there be outrage about Foxconn and its production practices? Seems not long ago it was a hellhole representing everything wrong about the modern tech

Shouldn't there be outrage about Foxconn and its production practices? Seems not long ago it was a hellhole representing everything wrong about the modern tech industry - now it's perfectly fine? If so, good job by Tim Cook to pressure them into greatness in worker treatment. Right?

ihsw 13y ago
Are you going to also complain about Canonical partnering with the Chinese government in creating a Ubuntu derivative[1][2]? [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuKylin https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuKylin [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UbuntuKylin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UbuntuKylin Business relationships make for strange bedfellows, and I'm sure Mozilla has some serious preconceptions about working with Foxconn, however it should be comforting that we're moving beyond the world of Microsoft/Apple/Google dominating consumer electronics.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  What does that have to do with Foxconn? Is it because Foxconn is in China and Mozilla is FOSS, like Ubuntu? I don't think the parent was making a comment about either China, or FOSS, but about Foxconn, Apple (their most well-known and largest customer), Mozilla, and people's perceptions of partnership with Foxconn seeming situational.
  - datalus 13y ago
    The Chinese Government's human rights record ain't exactly spotless either... I think that was the point he was making.
    - jabits 13y ago
      So what, not related. More noise...
- codygman 13y ago
  Yes.
patrickaljord 13y ago
One could consider Foxconn evil (I don't) and still recognize that it plays a very important role in the tech industry (most tech hardware gets assembled there after all) and therefor the fact that a huge player like Foxconn joins FirefoxOS could be seen as an important endorsement for Firefox and be celebrated by Firefox users/fans (which I am not). The fact that you could turn a story like that into an occasion to attack Apple critics makes you look like some Apple fanboy with delusions of persecution.
- goldfeld 13y ago
  I don't see FirefoxOS as the mobile OS for "Firefox users." It transcends the choice of browser in my opinion, it becomes something grander (as in Web standards native apps, and standing for freedom in the mobile market, much as Mozilla has stood for it in the browser market, but phones are surely in much more dire need of openness these days.) I'm not a desktop Firefox user as well, but neither am I a desktop Android browser user nor a desktop Safari user. And I'm really interested in FirefoxOS, and it doesn't involve giving up my preference for Luakit and Chrome on the desktop.
  - patrickaljord 13y ago
    > I don't see FirefoxOS as the mobile OS for "Firefox users." Oh sure, anyone could be a fan of FirefoxOS, that wasn't the point of my comment. I was just pointing that one would have to be twisted to turn this story into an Apple fanboy fight.
venomsnake 13y ago
Well ... because Apple is like the hot girl always complaining to be fat in front of her fat friends. With the massive sales and the high margins that are in every analyst's wet dream Apple could double what it pays for assembly with ease and without huge hit on the bottom line. But they don't care enough. This will be low margin/low volume devices initially with which mozilla - a non profit organization that wants to open the door to the internet on the poor people of the third world while preaching platform openness and standards. So maybe people are ready to cut them some slack for some time. Also maybe they are produced in (slightly) better conditions than iphone just based on the fact that the volumes and pressure are quite lower than on the iDevices assembly line.
Millennium 13y ago
Yeah, I've got to say: the fact that this is being done with Foxconn leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I know the Mozilla folks never actually signed on with the whole "don't be evil" thing, but this is still something of a stain on the way they do things.
- mseebach 13y ago
  Because competing as the fifth(? - I'm counting iOS, Android, WM and BlackBerry) player in the market, having neither the brand name or market share advantage of the other players, isn't hard enough, they should also revolutionise the way electronics are produced.
  - PommeDeTerre 13y ago
    It's pretty generous to put Firefox OS fifth in line, given the existence of mobile OSes like Bada, Symbian, MeeGo and webOS. Then there are the newer competitors, like Tizen and Ubuntu Touch, that it'll still have to face off against. There's very little, if anything, to put it above even these.
mtct 13y ago
I can't see how this partnership is not acceptable. Firefox is an NGO for the open web not one for human rights.
- Theory5 13y ago
  Why can't they be both? I can't celebrate this, even though I like Firefox and encourage their push for open web. But any company that has to install countermeasures to prevent worker suicides on premise isn't exactly aces in my book...
  - mtct 13y ago
    You can, no, you should; but is not a "you must".
    - camus 13y ago
      Yes it is a must, or they are just a bunch or hypocrites ,like the "dont be evil" folks...
  - kmasters 13y ago
    What "countermeasures" has the US "installed" to prevent suicides? Just because they aren't occurring in a sweatshop makes them no less real.
- corin_ 13y ago
  Without getting involved in the whole Foxconn debate: would you take the same stance on anyone partnering with Nazis, the KKK, terrorist organisations, the apartheid, etc. based on "they are not a human rights organisation, so it's not relevant"?
  - mtct 13y ago
    Why not? A doctor should refuse a patient because is a terrorist, a racist or a killer?
Mikeb85 13y ago
Maybe this will help Foxconn become a more responsible corporate citizen? Who knows... From what I've read, alot of their issues were directly related to Apple bullying them. Maybe branching out and selling their own products will enable them to make a better profit margin, and provide better for their workers? Right now Foxconn's margins are razor-thin...
- codygman 13y ago
  Right... it'll make the managers richer. It'll increase margins at the TOP while the bottom remains the same.

ihsw 13y ago

Are you going to also complain about Canonical partnering with the Chinese government in creating a Ubuntu derivative[1][2]? [1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuKylin https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuKylin [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UbuntuKylin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UbuntuKylin Business relationships make for strange bedfellows, and I'm sure Mozilla has some serious preconceptions about working with Foxconn, however it should be comforting that we're moving beyond the world of Microsoft/Apple/Google dominating consumer electronics.

pessimizer 13y ago
What does that have to do with Foxconn? Is it because Foxconn is in China and Mozilla is FOSS, like Ubuntu? I don't think the parent was making a comment about either China, or FOSS, but about Foxconn, Apple (their most well-known and largest customer), Mozilla, and people's perceptions of partnership with Foxconn seeming situational.
- datalus 13y ago
  The Chinese Government's human rights record ain't exactly spotless either... I think that was the point he was making.
  - jabits 13y ago
    So what, not related. More noise...
codygman 13y ago
Yes.

patrickaljord 13y ago

One could consider Foxconn evil (I don't) and still recognize that it plays a very important role in the tech industry (most tech hardware gets assembled there after all) and therefor the fact that a huge player like Foxconn joins FirefoxOS could be seen as an important endorsement for Firefox and be celebrated by Firefox users/fans (which I am not). The fact that you could turn a story like that into an occasion to attack Apple critics makes you look like some Apple fanboy with delusions of persecution.

goldfeld 13y ago
I don't see FirefoxOS as the mobile OS for "Firefox users." It transcends the choice of browser in my opinion, it becomes something grander (as in Web standards native apps, and standing for freedom in the mobile market, much as Mozilla has stood for it in the browser market, but phones are surely in much more dire need of openness these days.) I'm not a desktop Firefox user as well, but neither am I a desktop Android browser user nor a desktop Safari user. And I'm really interested in FirefoxOS, and it doesn't involve giving up my preference for Luakit and Chrome on the desktop.
- patrickaljord 13y ago
  > I don't see FirefoxOS as the mobile OS for "Firefox users." Oh sure, anyone could be a fan of FirefoxOS, that wasn't the point of my comment. I was just pointing that one would have to be twisted to turn this story into an Apple fanboy fight.

venomsnake 13y ago

Well ... because Apple is like the hot girl always complaining to be fat in front of her fat friends. With the massive sales and the high margins that are in every analyst's wet dream Apple could double what it pays for assembly with ease and without huge hit on the bottom line. But they don't care enough. This will be low margin/low volume devices initially with which mozilla - a non profit organization that wants to open the door to the internet on the poor people of the third world while preaching platform openness and standards. So maybe people are ready to cut them some slack for some time. Also maybe they are produced in (slightly) better conditions than iphone just based on the fact that the volumes and pressure are quite lower than on the iDevices assembly line.

Millennium 13y ago

Yeah, I've got to say: the fact that this is being done with Foxconn leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I know the Mozilla folks never actually signed on with the whole "don't be evil" thing, but this is still something of a stain on the way they do things.

mseebach 13y ago
Because competing as the fifth(? - I'm counting iOS, Android, WM and BlackBerry) player in the market, having neither the brand name or market share advantage of the other players, isn't hard enough, they should also revolutionise the way electronics are produced.
- PommeDeTerre 13y ago
  It's pretty generous to put Firefox OS fifth in line, given the existence of mobile OSes like Bada, Symbian, MeeGo and webOS. Then there are the newer competitors, like Tizen and Ubuntu Touch, that it'll still have to face off against. There's very little, if anything, to put it above even these.

mtct 13y ago

I can't see how this partnership is not acceptable. Firefox is an NGO for the open web not one for human rights.

Theory5 13y ago
Why can't they be both? I can't celebrate this, even though I like Firefox and encourage their push for open web. But any company that has to install countermeasures to prevent worker suicides on premise isn't exactly aces in my book...
- mtct 13y ago
  You can, no, you should; but is not a "you must".
  - camus 13y ago
    Yes it is a must, or they are just a bunch or hypocrites ,like the "dont be evil" folks...
- kmasters 13y ago
  What "countermeasures" has the US "installed" to prevent suicides? Just because they aren't occurring in a sweatshop makes them no less real.
corin_ 13y ago
Without getting involved in the whole Foxconn debate: would you take the same stance on anyone partnering with Nazis, the KKK, terrorist organisations, the apartheid, etc. based on "they are not a human rights organisation, so it's not relevant"?
- mtct 13y ago
  Why not? A doctor should refuse a patient because is a terrorist, a racist or a killer?

Mikeb85 13y ago

Maybe this will help Foxconn become a more responsible corporate citizen? Who knows... From what I've read, alot of their issues were directly related to Apple bullying them. Maybe branching out and selling their own products will enable them to make a better profit margin, and provide better for their workers? Right now Foxconn's margins are razor-thin...

codygman 13y ago
Right... it'll make the managers richer. It'll increase margins at the TOP while the bottom remains the same.