9 ms·

Be very careful when it comes to issues about Turkey. There is a very interesting and subtle social media campaign backed by yet to be seen figures who are maki

by cup 13y ago

Be very careful when it comes to issues about Turkey. There is a very interesting and subtle social media campaign backed by yet to be seen figures who are making this a much bigger/disingenious issue than it really is. The interesting facts you should realise are that Erdogan and his political party won the last three elctions, increasing their support by about 3 - 5% each round. Their last win saw them secure 49.4% of the vote, which means over three terms of power they've actually increased their support base by 15%. So why are there protests? Well theyre not about a tree unsurprisingly. There are 3 political factions who have subverted the initial protest, the BDP, CHP and TKP parties which are socialist, communist, secular or a combination of them (TKP being the most extreme). Surprisingly, these three parties were recently holding protest against Erdogans decision to allow refugees from Syria to enter Turkey. Yes, the three parties who are apparantly looking after the wellbeing of trees in a park don't want refugees of war entering Turkey (though no one mentiosn the fact that these three parties also support Assad because the Baath party is/was communist and secular too). Theres also the DHKP which is an extremist communist (terrorist?) party which hates the fact that the leader of Turkey is a practising Muslim and that Islam is seeing a revival in Turkey. So try to read between the lines and see that theres more to the story than trees. Redditors and HN folks seem to be falling hook line and sinker for a fantastic marketing astro turfing campaign. Just a few more pointers. During erdogans reign he improved the minimum wage by 500%, allowed farmers to access capital at a 5% interest rate as opposed to the initial 54% and paid off the last installment towards the IMF freeing them of all their debts. For the first time in modern era, Turkey now owes no money to the IMF and is the 15th largets economy in the world. Turkey does have problems, but theres more to this story that meets the eye and people need to wonder why and how this has blown up so successfully on social media sites.

mihok 13y ago
Thank you for the insight, its often hard if not impossible to be unbiased when it comes to these `uprisings` and civil conflicts. So hearing both sides is refreshing, do you have any sources for the information you provided?
- cup 13y ago
  Im assuming you dont speak Turkish so let me see what I can do.
mcintyre1994 13y ago
When you say they subverted the initial protest, do you mean before or after the police clamped it? I'm just wondering because if they'd politicised (to some extent made more extreme too), that could explain a lot about the police action. Alternatively, maybe the police made a bad shout upsetting a peaceful protest and these parties capitalised on angry people?
- ozgung 13y ago
  It's inaccurate that the protests are subverted by these 3 political parties. This may be a pro-government or right-wing argument and it lacks the understanding of the true nature and motivation of the protests. It all started as a pacifist movement with environmental emphasis. It was a peaceful event and the protests were in the form of reading books: http://cdn.internethaber.com/gallery/27534/3.jpg http://cdn.internethaber.com/gallery/27534/3.jpg http://t24.com.tr/media/stories/2013/05/page_gezi-parkinda-direnis-3-gununde-devam-ediyor_437264528.jpg http://t24.com.tr/media/stories/2013/05/page_gezi-parkinda-d... This is an iconic image illustrating the response of the police to these initial protests: http://cdncms.todayszaman.com/todayszaman/2013/05/28/gezi.jpg http://cdncms.todayszaman.com/todayszaman/2013/05/28/gezi.jp... This was the turning point of everything and people wanted to go to Gezi Park to support protesters. The governors response was escalating the police power and excessive use of tear gas. So the protests evolved to a anti-fascist and anti-government movement. PM Erdogan's response to the protests was nothing but provocative. He insisted that they have made their final decision for the park and they will not retreat. He also announced he will build a Mosque near Gezi Park (an extremely controversial project that has a former history) and they will also demolish Ataturk Cultural Center (an opera/theatre house across Gezi Park, having a symbolic significance representing the secular values of Turkey and carrying the name of the founder of the modern Turkey). He likes to call such projects as "crazy projects". Erdogan's provocative attitude was nothing new. In a typical week in Turkey you hear more controversial things from him. But for about few months it's getting worse and worse, and more authoritarian and conservative. Erdogan's Syria policy and last terrorist attracts was one of the reasons of discontent. The opposition parties were inadequate and there was blackout in the mainstream media. So people waited without any reaction for long time. This Gezi Park "crazy project" was just the last straw and everything escalated so quickly.
rrrrtttt 13y ago
(I deleted the comment after cup replied because in retrospect it was too snarky... Sorry.)
- cup 13y ago
  Not at all. The protestors have legitimate grievances however the initial protest over green wedges in turkey have been subverted by a coalition of opposition political groups looking to exploit discontent. Don't forget that there is a major war occuring on Turkeys border and significant geopolitical games occuring. This isn't about trees anymore.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - freshfey 13y ago
    Nobody talks about the trees anymore. You should read the description of the campaign: "But this is not just about a park. Before the park was the closure of an Ottoman pastry shop, the arrests of journalists, laws on alcohol sales, constantly changing school curricula. Gezi Park and the subsequent police violence on demonstrators were just the latest examples of a fundamental shift away from basic civil rights."
freshfey 13y ago
You either closed your eyes for the last few days or don't know anybody in Turkey. I have friends and family who protested (peacefully) on the streets of Istanbul, Izmir and Ankara in the last few days. Almost all of them had to endure tear gas, beatings and other cruel events. I have also been told by the exact same people (who don't belong to any political party btw) that people who normally wouldn't stay in a room together (think soccer fans of opposing teams, religious and non-religious people, nationalists and communists) went onto the streets to protest against the police brutality, SIDE BY SIDE. You are right, Erdogan and his party won the last three elections. But there are also rumours that they bought votes, so like you said - don't believe everything you read. The problem is way bigger than a few political parties trying to pull strings (honestly your opinion sounds very pro-government and almost conspiracy theoretical): There are people RIGHT NOW in the streets getting BEAT UP by the police (the very same organization that should PROTECT those people). Look around on twitter and facebook, read posts of REAL PEOPLE. The police brutatlity has taken a level which is inhumane and has to be stopped. Edit: (sorry I'm getting a little angry here) Posts like yours are exactly the reason why people look at this and think "oh this is just another political party power move / somebody trying to exploit the situation. This is probably all fake anyway" - while people are getting beat up.
- cup 13y ago
  "this is probably all fake anyway - while people get beat up. Why did the main political blocs which are supporting these protests ( BDP, CHP and TKP ) protest against allowing the syrian refugees enter turkey then. Can't you see that this is a political issue. What flags are people holding, that's a dead give away. Violence and police brutality are terrible and inexcusable but this issue and protest isn't black not white.
  - vidarh 13y ago
    The moment the government starts using violence to surpress it, it becomes black and white. What motivations might be behind various subsets of the demonstrators is pretty much irrelevant at that point.
ericelias 13y ago
Yes, there are other parties that exist in Turkey. The people protesting are from different backgrounds, educations, futbol teams and political parties, and have joined together to protest the brutality that was exhibited by the police, the media censorship and the built up frustration with the government's policies. Yes, the AK party receives a substantial amount of the votes as they are the unified religious based party that appeals to the majority of the country. (http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com)
theverse 13y ago
The campaign is there to provide insights what's going on in Turkey, it's not questioning the average income increase, China is one the greatest economical powers of the world, so what? It doesnt mean people are free and treated right. This campaign is there for supporting the most basic human right: being heard. As a side note, the protests were never not influenced by a political party at all. I personally know several AKP voters, who are on the street now.
- a-nikolaev 13y ago
  I agree with this. I don't know about the situation in Turkey, but definitely, average salary is not the measure of people's well-being at all. If peaceful citizens go to the streets to protest, they really feel that something is going wrong. Last year, autocratic government of Russia unleashed repressions agains their own citizens, and it was (and is) really ugly. I hope that people of Turkey will withstand the violent actions of the government, and their voice will be heard.
vidarh 13y ago
> and people need to wonder why and how this has blown up so successfully on social media sites. One might have had to wonder that, if it had not been for the extremely poor mainstream media coverage. That in itself has been a substantial driver for a lot of the social media attention outside of Turkey at least.
muhuk 13y ago
When you say minimum wage has increased 500%, those who don't know the inflation rate is ~10% will think people got 5 times richer. There is indeed more to this story than meets the eye; minimum wage is below the poverty limit. https://www.google.com.sg/search?q=turkey+minimum+wage https://www.google.com.sg/search?q=turkey+minimum+wage http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoksulluk_s%C4%B1n%C4%B1r%C4%B1 http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoksulluk_s%C4%B1n%C4%B1r%C4%B1 (poverty level 2013: 3280TL for a family of 4)
- uvdiv 13y ago
  Following your first link, at €429/month Turkey has a higher minimum wage than wealthier European countries (Poland, Czech Republic, baltic nations). OECD says the minimum wage is 71% of the median wage [1] and calls lowering it a priority [2]. The Economist also calls it "high" and recommends it be lowered. [3] [1] http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=MIN2AVE http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=MIN2AVE [2] http://www.oecd.org/turkey/47471935.pdf http://www.oecd.org/turkey/47471935.pdf [3] http://www.economist.com/node/18651739 http://www.economist.com/node/18651739
  - muhuk 13y ago
    I don't know the taxes in other, more wealthier, countries but when you deduct income taxes TRY 773 (EUR 317) is left. [1] I think this is beside the point. Parent is suggesting a 500% increase when AKP was ruling. I wanted to point out that this is a wordplay. Please read parent and then my comment again. 1: http://www.muhasebetr.com/2013-asgari-ucret.html http://www.muhasebetr.com/2013-asgari-ucret.html
    - uvdiv 13y ago
      Parent is suggesting a 500% increase when AKP was ruling. I wanted to point out that this is a wordplay. You're right on this point, it's only 143% in real terms (after inflation).
      - muhuk 13y ago
makmanalp 13y ago
This is ridiculous. I'm at work so I can't do a point by point refutation but I will later. It's obvious that you know more than the average person on this subject, but you're falling into the trap of thinking that just because you know some things, you have a good (or even the best) picture of what is happening. First of all, the main significant thing about these protests is that it was the FIRST large scale protest to not be organized by any political group(s) and instead is grassroots. People just started messaging each other and walking outside of their houses to support others. A day or two later, parties finally started organizing but the protest is nonpartisan. I have never otherwise seen a TKP (left-communist party) and MHP (ultra-nationalist right) flags flying together EVER! There are also people from Laz, soccer teams, Kurds, workers unions, LGBT groups. I am getting daily updates from almost all of my friends who are taking part in the protests. The idea that it was "subverted", or is fake astroturfing is absurd. Read this: http://technosociology.org/?p=1255 http://technosociology.org/?p=1255 Second, yes, Erdogan's leadership resulted in economic reform (the costs of this is another discussion altogether, but no one can deny the gains). But this has nothing to do with his authoritarian ruling style. Under his tenure, Turkey has had the great (!) achievements of dropping to 54th in the corruption index (http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/9967221.asp http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/9967221.asp) and "noticable problems" the press freedom index with 33 journalists currently jailed (http://en.rsf.org/report-turkey,141.html http://en.rsf.org/report-turkey,141.html). Or political prisoners (http://www.fidh.org/International-delegation-finds http://www.fidh.org/International-delegation-finds). Third, you need to learn a lot more about election politics and demographics in Turkey. Democracy is not elected dictatorship. But Erdogan has made it clear that this is his interpretation of it, many times. P.S. There are so many videos (with context) / images of clear and unincited police brutality that I want to puke when I hear you deny them. I've been compiling a list. More on this later too. http://i.imgur.com/GdstgFu.jpg http://i.imgur.com/GdstgFu.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHFe7vK1hyw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHFe7vK1hyw https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151648526182702 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151648526182702 http://i.imgur.com/ovsvTkg.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ovsvTkg.jpg https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=139362532926023 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=139362532926023 http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-981250 http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-981250 https://twitter.com/kurttberna/status/340734448146472960/photo/1 https://twitter.com/kurttberna/status/340734448146472960/pho... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDnrcsrhxGg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDnrcsrhxGg http://i.imgur.com/tP6EIXI.jpg http://i.imgur.com/tP6EIXI.jpg http://i.imgur.com/n1VWYdI.jpg http://i.imgur.com/n1VWYdI.jpg https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=207394002740909&set=vb.126576117362399&type=2&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=207394002740909&set... http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=248465715278711&set=a.248125328646083.1073741828.247993528659263&type=1 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=248465715278711&s... http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=654306227917990&set=vb.215491745136618&type=2&theater http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=654306227917990&set=...
lifeguard 13y ago
http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution?utm_source=lsplayer&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=footerlinks http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution?utm_source=lsplay...
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
Jun8 13y ago
I agree that people should be careful in judging happenings in countries they have limited knowledge of, however, I see that you have no links to back your points so people have to rely on what you're saying. All the things I have observed so far are in direct contradiction to your points. Specifically, * "social media campaign backed by yet to be seen figures", I don't know what you are referring here, it could be the typical conspiracy theory fueled thinking (e.g. "Israel/US was behind the twin tower attacks"). What I see from my Facebook and Twitter feeds is that all my friends, both in Turkey and in US, have been busy for the past 4-5 days in backing the protests by sharing information, etc. Naturally, some misinformation was communicated but that doesn't prove the point that everything was done by "outside powers". * BDP was not heavily involved in the protests; however, a BDP representative was the first government person to try to stop the dozers in the park. * I wish CHP were more involved! As you no doubt know, Kilicdaroglu, CHP's president, is a clueless guy who is incapable of seizing the moment even now. He tried to have large gathering on Saturday but did not have much effect. * Your point that DHKP and TKP are somehow involved and/or masterminded the protests is ludicrous. True, these groups have in the past organized protests in Turkey and may have been involved in the protests (I saw people holding DHKP flags among the crowds a few times). That doesn't change the fact that the protests were middle-class-based at their peak. How else to explain involvement of groups such as BJK Carsi (btw these guys are quite a phenomenon, if you want to know more check out Elif Batuman's piece in The New Yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/03/07/110307fa_fact_batuman http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/03/07/110307fa_fact_...). It is a fact that PM Erdogan has kept Turkey's economy alive and well, no small feat considering the fact that Europe is having its worst recession since WWII. It is equally obvious that he has become very authoritarian in the past 1-2 years. I can give quite a number of links but just listening to his news brief with a Turkish Reuters reporter is enough to showcase his impatience, I think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abxc0b0J2UY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abxc0b0J2UY
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

by cup 13y ago

mihok 13y ago

Thank you for the insight, its often hard if not impossible to be unbiased when it comes to these `uprisings` and civil conflicts. So hearing both sides is refreshing, do you have any sources for the information you provided?

cup 13y ago
Im assuming you dont speak Turkish so let me see what I can do.

mcintyre1994 13y ago

When you say they subverted the initial protest, do you mean before or after the police clamped it? I'm just wondering because if they'd politicised (to some extent made more extreme too), that could explain a lot about the police action. Alternatively, maybe the police made a bad shout upsetting a peaceful protest and these parties capitalised on angry people?

ozgung 13y ago
It's inaccurate that the protests are subverted by these 3 political parties. This may be a pro-government or right-wing argument and it lacks the understanding of the true nature and motivation of the protests. It all started as a pacifist movement with environmental emphasis. It was a peaceful event and the protests were in the form of reading books: http://cdn.internethaber.com/gallery/27534/3.jpg http://cdn.internethaber.com/gallery/27534/3.jpg http://t24.com.tr/media/stories/2013/05/page_gezi-parkinda-direnis-3-gununde-devam-ediyor_437264528.jpg http://t24.com.tr/media/stories/2013/05/page_gezi-parkinda-d... This is an iconic image illustrating the response of the police to these initial protests: http://cdncms.todayszaman.com/todayszaman/2013/05/28/gezi.jpg http://cdncms.todayszaman.com/todayszaman/2013/05/28/gezi.jp... This was the turning point of everything and people wanted to go to Gezi Park to support protesters. The governors response was escalating the police power and excessive use of tear gas. So the protests evolved to a anti-fascist and anti-government movement. PM Erdogan's response to the protests was nothing but provocative. He insisted that they have made their final decision for the park and they will not retreat. He also announced he will build a Mosque near Gezi Park (an extremely controversial project that has a former history) and they will also demolish Ataturk Cultural Center (an opera/theatre house across Gezi Park, having a symbolic significance representing the secular values of Turkey and carrying the name of the founder of the modern Turkey). He likes to call such projects as "crazy projects". Erdogan's provocative attitude was nothing new. In a typical week in Turkey you hear more controversial things from him. But for about few months it's getting worse and worse, and more authoritarian and conservative. Erdogan's Syria policy and last terrorist attracts was one of the reasons of discontent. The opposition parties were inadequate and there was blackout in the mainstream media. So people waited without any reaction for long time. This Gezi Park "crazy project" was just the last straw and everything escalated so quickly.

rrrrtttt 13y ago

(I deleted the comment after cup replied because in retrospect it was too snarky... Sorry.)

cup 13y ago
Not at all. The protestors have legitimate grievances however the initial protest over green wedges in turkey have been subverted by a coalition of opposition political groups looking to exploit discontent. Don't forget that there is a major war occuring on Turkeys border and significant geopolitical games occuring. This isn't about trees anymore.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- freshfey 13y ago
  Nobody talks about the trees anymore. You should read the description of the campaign: "But this is not just about a park. Before the park was the closure of an Ottoman pastry shop, the arrests of journalists, laws on alcohol sales, constantly changing school curricula. Gezi Park and the subsequent police violence on demonstrators were just the latest examples of a fundamental shift away from basic civil rights."

freshfey 13y ago

You either closed your eyes for the last few days or don't know anybody in Turkey. I have friends and family who protested (peacefully) on the streets of Istanbul, Izmir and Ankara in the last few days. Almost all of them had to endure tear gas, beatings and other cruel events. I have also been told by the exact same people (who don't belong to any political party btw) that people who normally wouldn't stay in a room together (think soccer fans of opposing teams, religious and non-religious people, nationalists and communists) went onto the streets to protest against the police brutality, SIDE BY SIDE. You are right, Erdogan and his party won the last three elections. But there are also rumours that they bought votes, so like you said - don't believe everything you read. The problem is way bigger than a few political parties trying to pull strings (honestly your opinion sounds very pro-government and almost conspiracy theoretical): There are people RIGHT NOW in the streets getting BEAT UP by the police (the very same organization that should PROTECT those people). Look around on twitter and facebook, read posts of REAL PEOPLE. The police brutatlity has taken a level which is inhumane and has to be stopped. Edit: (sorry I'm getting a little angry here) Posts like yours are exactly the reason why people look at this and think "oh this is just another political party power move / somebody trying to exploit the situation. This is probably all fake anyway" - while people are getting beat up.

cup 13y ago
"this is probably all fake anyway - while people get beat up. Why did the main political blocs which are supporting these protests ( BDP, CHP and TKP ) protest against allowing the syrian refugees enter turkey then. Can't you see that this is a political issue. What flags are people holding, that's a dead give away. Violence and police brutality are terrible and inexcusable but this issue and protest isn't black not white.
- vidarh 13y ago
  The moment the government starts using violence to surpress it, it becomes black and white. What motivations might be behind various subsets of the demonstrators is pretty much irrelevant at that point.

ericelias 13y ago

Yes, there are other parties that exist in Turkey. The people protesting are from different backgrounds, educations, futbol teams and political parties, and have joined together to protest the brutality that was exhibited by the police, the media censorship and the built up frustration with the government's policies. Yes, the AK party receives a substantial amount of the votes as they are the unified religious based party that appeals to the majority of the country. (http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com http://occupygezipics.tumblr.com)

theverse 13y ago

The campaign is there to provide insights what's going on in Turkey, it's not questioning the average income increase, China is one the greatest economical powers of the world, so what? It doesnt mean people are free and treated right. This campaign is there for supporting the most basic human right: being heard. As a side note, the protests were never not influenced by a political party at all. I personally know several AKP voters, who are on the street now.

a-nikolaev 13y ago
I agree with this. I don't know about the situation in Turkey, but definitely, average salary is not the measure of people's well-being at all. If peaceful citizens go to the streets to protest, they really feel that something is going wrong. Last year, autocratic government of Russia unleashed repressions agains their own citizens, and it was (and is) really ugly. I hope that people of Turkey will withstand the violent actions of the government, and their voice will be heard.

vidarh 13y ago

> and people need to wonder why and how this has blown up so successfully on social media sites. One might have had to wonder that, if it had not been for the extremely poor mainstream media coverage. That in itself has been a substantial driver for a lot of the social media attention outside of Turkey at least.

muhuk 13y ago

When you say minimum wage has increased 500%, those who don't know the inflation rate is ~10% will think people got 5 times richer. There is indeed more to this story than meets the eye; minimum wage is below the poverty limit. https://www.google.com.sg/search?q=turkey+minimum+wage https://www.google.com.sg/search?q=turkey+minimum+wage http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoksulluk_s%C4%B1n%C4%B1r%C4%B1 http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoksulluk_s%C4%B1n%C4%B1r%C4%B1 (poverty level 2013: 3280TL for a family of 4)

uvdiv 13y ago
Following your first link, at €429/month Turkey has a higher minimum wage than wealthier European countries (Poland, Czech Republic, baltic nations). OECD says the minimum wage is 71% of the median wage [1] and calls lowering it a priority [2]. The Economist also calls it "high" and recommends it be lowered. [3] [1] http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=MIN2AVE http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=MIN2AVE [2] http://www.oecd.org/turkey/47471935.pdf http://www.oecd.org/turkey/47471935.pdf [3] http://www.economist.com/node/18651739 http://www.economist.com/node/18651739
- muhuk 13y ago
  I don't know the taxes in other, more wealthier, countries but when you deduct income taxes TRY 773 (EUR 317) is left. [1] I think this is beside the point. Parent is suggesting a 500% increase when AKP was ruling. I wanted to point out that this is a wordplay. Please read parent and then my comment again. 1: http://www.muhasebetr.com/2013-asgari-ucret.html http://www.muhasebetr.com/2013-asgari-ucret.html
  - uvdiv 13y ago
    Parent is suggesting a 500% increase when AKP was ruling. I wanted to point out that this is a wordplay. You're right on this point, it's only 143% in real terms (after inflation).
    - muhuk 13y ago

makmanalp 13y ago

This is ridiculous. I'm at work so I can't do a point by point refutation but I will later. It's obvious that you know more than the average person on this subject, but you're falling into the trap of thinking that just because you know some things, you have a good (or even the best) picture of what is happening. First of all, the main significant thing about these protests is that it was the FIRST large scale protest to not be organized by any political group(s) and instead is grassroots. People just started messaging each other and walking outside of their houses to support others. A day or two later, parties finally started organizing but the protest is nonpartisan. I have never otherwise seen a TKP (left-communist party) and MHP (ultra-nationalist right) flags flying together EVER! There are also people from Laz, soccer teams, Kurds, workers unions, LGBT groups. I am getting daily updates from almost all of my friends who are taking part in the protests. The idea that it was "subverted", or is fake astroturfing is absurd. Read this: http://technosociology.org/?p=1255 http://technosociology.org/?p=1255 Second, yes, Erdogan's leadership resulted in economic reform (the costs of this is another discussion altogether, but no one can deny the gains). But this has nothing to do with his authoritarian ruling style. Under his tenure, Turkey has had the great (!) achievements of dropping to 54th in the corruption index (http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/9967221.asp http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/9967221.asp) and "noticable problems" the press freedom index with 33 journalists currently jailed (http://en.rsf.org/report-turkey,141.html http://en.rsf.org/report-turkey,141.html). Or political prisoners (http://www.fidh.org/International-delegation-finds http://www.fidh.org/International-delegation-finds). Third, you need to learn a lot more about election politics and demographics in Turkey. Democracy is not elected dictatorship. But Erdogan has made it clear that this is his interpretation of it, many times. P.S. There are so many videos (with context) / images of clear and unincited police brutality that I want to puke when I hear you deny them. I've been compiling a list. More on this later too. http://i.imgur.com/GdstgFu.jpg http://i.imgur.com/GdstgFu.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHFe7vK1hyw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHFe7vK1hyw https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151648526182702 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151648526182702 http://i.imgur.com/ovsvTkg.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ovsvTkg.jpg https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=139362532926023 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=139362532926023 http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-981250 http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-981250 https://twitter.com/kurttberna/status/340734448146472960/photo/1 https://twitter.com/kurttberna/status/340734448146472960/pho... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDnrcsrhxGg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDnrcsrhxGg http://i.imgur.com/tP6EIXI.jpg http://i.imgur.com/tP6EIXI.jpg http://i.imgur.com/n1VWYdI.jpg http://i.imgur.com/n1VWYdI.jpg https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=207394002740909&set=vb.126576117362399&type=2&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=207394002740909&set... http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=248465715278711&set=a.248125328646083.1073741828.247993528659263&type=1 http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=248465715278711&s... http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=654306227917990&set=vb.215491745136618&type=2&theater http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=654306227917990&set=...

lifeguard 13y ago

http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution?utm_source=lsplayer&utm_medium=embed&utm_campaign=footerlinks http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution?utm_source=lsplay...

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

Jun8 13y ago

I agree that people should be careful in judging happenings in countries they have limited knowledge of, however, I see that you have no links to back your points so people have to rely on what you're saying. All the things I have observed so far are in direct contradiction to your points. Specifically, * "social media campaign backed by yet to be seen figures", I don't know what you are referring here, it could be the typical conspiracy theory fueled thinking (e.g. "Israel/US was behind the twin tower attacks"). What I see from my Facebook and Twitter feeds is that all my friends, both in Turkey and in US, have been busy for the past 4-5 days in backing the protests by sharing information, etc. Naturally, some misinformation was communicated but that doesn't prove the point that everything was done by "outside powers". * BDP was not heavily involved in the protests; however, a BDP representative was the first government person to try to stop the dozers in the park. * I wish CHP were more involved! As you no doubt know, Kilicdaroglu, CHP's president, is a clueless guy who is incapable of seizing the moment even now. He tried to have large gathering on Saturday but did not have much effect. * Your point that DHKP and TKP are somehow involved and/or masterminded the protests is ludicrous. True, these groups have in the past organized protests in Turkey and may have been involved in the protests (I saw people holding DHKP flags among the crowds a few times). That doesn't change the fact that the protests were middle-class-based at their peak. How else to explain involvement of groups such as BJK Carsi (btw these guys are quite a phenomenon, if you want to know more check out Elif Batuman's piece in The New Yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/03/07/110307fa_fact_batuman http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/03/07/110307fa_fact_...). It is a fact that PM Erdogan has kept Turkey's economy alive and well, no small feat considering the fact that Europe is having its worst recession since WWII. It is equally obvious that he has become very authoritarian in the past 1-2 years. I can give quite a number of links but just listening to his news brief with a Turkish Reuters reporter is enough to showcase his impatience, I think: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abxc0b0J2UY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abxc0b0J2UY

deleted 13y ago

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