5 ms·

This is very easy to say. Politicians are just reflections of who we all are. And imho they have the hardest jobs on the planet today. There isn't a course on

by Sven7 13y ago

This is very easy to say. Politicians are just reflections of who we all are. And imho they have the hardest jobs on the planet today. There isn't a course on Khan Academy, that they can take, which tells them what to do when uncontrolled chain reactions are set off by Social networks. The results will always be messy. And to then say if they just did the "right thing" all will be well, isn't being very realistic. When the "right thing" for different sections of society is so different.

egeozcan 13y ago
Well, yes and no. It must true that they are the reflections of the society but this is no reason for them to become populists and sway away from their actual job: Protecting the rights of the people, regardless of their vote, religion or anything that can be used to discriminate them. Yes there are always some people who become evil with their jobs but the percentage of wrongdoers among the politicians tends to be much higher than the society average in every community. I have a few theories on why this is the case but I have no evidence so I think I'll keep them to myself.
- Sven7 13y ago
  > this is no reason for them to become populists and sway away from their actual job Protecting rights is not as easy as just giving a speech or writing a blog post. It is about engaging with the other side (not just calling them idiots). It is about building social capital. Over decades. So that when the time comes, to take a stand on something, you can cash it in even it is highly unpopular. That is the power great leaders have had throughout history and you cannot accumulate it(nonviolently) without being populist.
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago
  Only Americans actually believe that the job of politicians is "protecting the rights of the people", and even then, most non-Libertarian voters in America don't actually believe that's the only job of politicians. There's a fundamental trade-off: power attracts the corruptible, but a certain amount is necessary to get important jobs done.
  - icebraining 13y ago
    European democracies don't believe that the job of politicians is protecting the rights of the people? I'd say that's exactly what we believe in, it's just that our society has a different view of what the "rights of the people" are. Around here they'd include, as one of our songs says, "peace, bread, housing, health and education".
kingi 13y ago
"And imho they have the hardest jobs on the planet today." Seriously? Please watch a bit George Carlin...
- Sven7 13y ago
  I love George Carlin. Doesn't change my opinion.
X4 13y ago
I'm sorry, but this is naive and idealistic. Politicians don't work hard and they never will, don't get fooled by the Media. Just because one travels a lot doesn't mean he/she doesn't have enough sleep or that he/she works very hard. It's the opposite!!11 They use your tax money to buy stuff for them and their family. They hire their relatives for "ghost-jobs" and double their salary within the law that they signed the other day. Get an update and a reality-check please. No offense, we're all getting brain-washed, but don't be one of the sheep.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- Sven7 13y ago
  Have you managed a team of people?
  - flyinRyan 13y ago
    Yes. The hardest part of it is dealing with boredom that goes with endless meetings and petty politics. In what way do you imagine managing people to be hard work? Because of all the bullshit paperwork you have to fill out?
  - X4 13y ago
    Yes I have, different sizes of teams on many occasions and with very different mentalities, religions, motivations and "qualities". But that's an "Apples" vs "Oranges" type of comparison. Don't compare a team with a party. A team is working to solve a problem. A party is there to reflect their ideology and motivations and to fight against other parties. Different parties rarely find consensus, because they don't work to solve a problem. They work just for themselves and THAT's the problem! But hey if you agree that bureaucratically manifesting your ideas is work, it's ok. To answer your question: I had no failures until now and I am grateful for that. There would be no excuse if I had one though. I and my team would know what my failures were. Communicating that early is very important. But admitting failures officially is counter-effective, you're better off communicating countermeasures that will protect you from further failures. Avoid becoming the symbol of that one failure you had. Keep up, we're Start-Ups after all, no everybody will succeed in this race and it's ok. We should help other succeed when we can't. This is the big difference between you and a politician. Ever seen a Republican going to the Democrats or vice vera who shared his knowledge having good intentions? It is not the democracy which is wrong, people have the need for consensus. What's really wrong is that the people with the wrong mentalities or motivations lead us. People we didn't vote for join the winning parties. Corruption evolved into a sign of success inside of those parties. Politicians give excuses for their failures, but in reality the overall situation isn't the cause for their failure. There are no excuses! Example: Try walking outside through the crowd looking very angry, very disappointed, very sad or very happy. Every emotion, idea and thought you have in your mind will unwillingly express in all you do. You shape everyone around you without noticing it. Your thought, has a lot of effects to your environment. When you look very angry for example, people could be irritated, afraid, or aggressive. Reading all the books about Information Management and Project Management won't help you. First hand experience, will show you that it's very important to reflect what you want. Your team will find consensus based on that.
gbog 13y ago
Exactly. I suppose that Turkish gov is too harsh but you cannot know what is the real best interests of Turkish people right now and what would be their well pondered decision about the issue. In 68 in France we had major unrest, and fight with police, but the majority was actually against it and wanted De Gaulle back.
klibertp 13y ago
Bullshit. Maybe somewhere, in some country - maybe in yours - it's true. In many, many, MANY! (realize this) other countries politicians are a different breed of people, for generations raised in vastly different conditions; they see other things than others, they eat differently, they think in a way that is not comprehensible for many "normal" people in their countries. And that's only a tip of an iceberg, as there are external influences as well, which complicates matters further. ...on the other hand, would it be better if politicians were just a reflection of "who we all are"? I doubt it...
- parasubvert 13y ago
  Anyone whose profession is primarily about influencing others think differently than the rest of the populace (and have a different take on people in general). Sort of like how sex workers think differently about sex, or how chefs think about food. I didn't read his point your way. I read it as: elected politicians are a reflection of who a society is through the filter of their electoral and media system.
flyinRyan 13y ago
Hardest job on the planet? You need to take a step back and look how ignorant this statement is. If you fail as a politician what happens? You might get voted out. But even this isn't that big of a deal unless it comes too early in your career, because you should have plenty of cushy jobs lined up from all the companies you've helped in your political career. Pretty much every other possible job is harder and more risk than being a politician.
- taejo 13y ago
  > If you fail as a politician what happens? You might get voted out. That says nothing about the probability of failure, only the consequences of it. Is writing operating systems easier than driving just because you're less likely to die while doing it?
  - flyinRyan 13y ago
    My point was there is no danger and no down side to being politician [1]. And it just seems odd to me to call a job that consists of literally nothing but talking "hard". Obama is president and the most work he did in congress was being present. To call it hard work is controversial. To call it the hardest job on the planet is utterly outlandish.

by Sven7 13y ago

egeozcan 13y ago

Well, yes and no. It must true that they are the reflections of the society but this is no reason for them to become populists and sway away from their actual job: Protecting the rights of the people, regardless of their vote, religion or anything that can be used to discriminate them. Yes there are always some people who become evil with their jobs but the percentage of wrongdoers among the politicians tends to be much higher than the society average in every community. I have a few theories on why this is the case but I have no evidence so I think I'll keep them to myself.

Sven7 13y ago
> this is no reason for them to become populists and sway away from their actual job Protecting rights is not as easy as just giving a speech or writing a blog post. It is about engaging with the other side (not just calling them idiots). It is about building social capital. Over decades. So that when the time comes, to take a stand on something, you can cash it in even it is highly unpopular. That is the power great leaders have had throughout history and you cannot accumulate it(nonviolently) without being populist.
eli_gottlieb 13y ago
Only Americans actually believe that the job of politicians is "protecting the rights of the people", and even then, most non-Libertarian voters in America don't actually believe that's the only job of politicians. There's a fundamental trade-off: power attracts the corruptible, but a certain amount is necessary to get important jobs done.
- icebraining 13y ago
  European democracies don't believe that the job of politicians is protecting the rights of the people? I'd say that's exactly what we believe in, it's just that our society has a different view of what the "rights of the people" are. Around here they'd include, as one of our songs says, "peace, bread, housing, health and education".

kingi 13y ago

"And imho they have the hardest jobs on the planet today." Seriously? Please watch a bit George Carlin...

Sven7 13y ago
I love George Carlin. Doesn't change my opinion.

X4 13y ago

I'm sorry, but this is naive and idealistic. Politicians don't work hard and they never will, don't get fooled by the Media. Just because one travels a lot doesn't mean he/she doesn't have enough sleep or that he/she works very hard. It's the opposite!!11 They use your tax money to buy stuff for them and their family. They hire their relatives for "ghost-jobs" and double their salary within the law that they signed the other day. Get an update and a reality-check please. No offense, we're all getting brain-washed, but don't be one of the sheep.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
Sven7 13y ago
Have you managed a team of people?
- flyinRyan 13y ago
  Yes. The hardest part of it is dealing with boredom that goes with endless meetings and petty politics. In what way do you imagine managing people to be hard work? Because of all the bullshit paperwork you have to fill out?
- X4 13y ago
  Yes I have, different sizes of teams on many occasions and with very different mentalities, religions, motivations and "qualities". But that's an "Apples" vs "Oranges" type of comparison. Don't compare a team with a party. A team is working to solve a problem. A party is there to reflect their ideology and motivations and to fight against other parties. Different parties rarely find consensus, because they don't work to solve a problem. They work just for themselves and THAT's the problem! But hey if you agree that bureaucratically manifesting your ideas is work, it's ok. To answer your question: I had no failures until now and I am grateful for that. There would be no excuse if I had one though. I and my team would know what my failures were. Communicating that early is very important. But admitting failures officially is counter-effective, you're better off communicating countermeasures that will protect you from further failures. Avoid becoming the symbol of that one failure you had. Keep up, we're Start-Ups after all, no everybody will succeed in this race and it's ok. We should help other succeed when we can't. This is the big difference between you and a politician. Ever seen a Republican going to the Democrats or vice vera who shared his knowledge having good intentions? It is not the democracy which is wrong, people have the need for consensus. What's really wrong is that the people with the wrong mentalities or motivations lead us. People we didn't vote for join the winning parties. Corruption evolved into a sign of success inside of those parties. Politicians give excuses for their failures, but in reality the overall situation isn't the cause for their failure. There are no excuses! Example: Try walking outside through the crowd looking very angry, very disappointed, very sad or very happy. Every emotion, idea and thought you have in your mind will unwillingly express in all you do. You shape everyone around you without noticing it. Your thought, has a lot of effects to your environment. When you look very angry for example, people could be irritated, afraid, or aggressive. Reading all the books about Information Management and Project Management won't help you. First hand experience, will show you that it's very important to reflect what you want. Your team will find consensus based on that.

gbog 13y ago

Exactly. I suppose that Turkish gov is too harsh but you cannot know what is the real best interests of Turkish people right now and what would be their well pondered decision about the issue. In 68 in France we had major unrest, and fight with police, but the majority was actually against it and wanted De Gaulle back.

klibertp 13y ago

Bullshit. Maybe somewhere, in some country - maybe in yours - it's true. In many, many, MANY! (realize this) other countries politicians are a different breed of people, for generations raised in vastly different conditions; they see other things than others, they eat differently, they think in a way that is not comprehensible for many "normal" people in their countries. And that's only a tip of an iceberg, as there are external influences as well, which complicates matters further. ...on the other hand, would it be better if politicians were just a reflection of "who we all are"? I doubt it...

parasubvert 13y ago
Anyone whose profession is primarily about influencing others think differently than the rest of the populace (and have a different take on people in general). Sort of like how sex workers think differently about sex, or how chefs think about food. I didn't read his point your way. I read it as: elected politicians are a reflection of who a society is through the filter of their electoral and media system.

flyinRyan 13y ago

Hardest job on the planet? You need to take a step back and look how ignorant this statement is. If you fail as a politician what happens? You might get voted out. But even this isn't that big of a deal unless it comes too early in your career, because you should have plenty of cushy jobs lined up from all the companies you've helped in your political career. Pretty much every other possible job is harder and more risk than being a politician.

taejo 13y ago
> If you fail as a politician what happens? You might get voted out. That says nothing about the probability of failure, only the consequences of it. Is writing operating systems easier than driving just because you're less likely to die while doing it?
- flyinRyan 13y ago
  My point was there is no danger and no down side to being politician [1]. And it just seems odd to me to call a job that consists of literally nothing but talking "hard". Obama is president and the most work he did in congress was being present. To call it hard work is controversial. To call it the hardest job on the planet is utterly outlandish.