6 ms·

For the purposes of this discussion, I don't think it's correct to be comparing the current Singapore with the current Turkey, since the premise is that Turkey

by JDShu 13y ago

For the purposes of this discussion, I don't think it's correct to be comparing the current Singapore with the current Turkey, since the premise is that Turkey is on the way to becoming like Singapore. So from this perspective if you examine the points you gave: - Singapore is the least corrupt country in the world because of extremely tough laws that were enacted in the past. - I'll give you that Singapore is much more diverse, but note that China also wants to adopt a Singapore model and has an incredibly strong cultural identity. - A quick lookup shows that Erdoğan has been in office for the longest time since the 60s (three terms). To me, fears of Turkey becoming a de facto one-party state seems justified, at least absent any other information. I'm not sure if listing the differences and similarities of the two countries is even relevant to this particular discussion. The thesis was that Turkey might be trying to adopt a Singapore model of using economic growth and social order to offset the demand for political freedom. It doesn't actually matter how different the countries are if the government objectives are similar.

berkay 13y ago
"A quick lookup shows that Erdoğan has been in office for the longest time since the 60s (three terms). To me, fears of Turkey becoming a de facto one-party state seems justified, at least absent any other information." You're on to something. One of the underlying reasons of the protests is not only Erdoğan has been in the office for a long time, but also secular sections of the society has lost hope of change of government within the political system (Opposition is in shambles, AKP will likely win the elections again, etc.) There is no political alternative within the system, hence the growing discontent manifests itself in other ways.
- waps 13y ago
  If you think the worst is a one-party state, you've not been following the news. The worst is that Erdogan completes his mission : turning turkey in a middle-eastern islamic dictatorship where women are beaten for walking on the street and every tiniest bit of culture dies, violently and with beheadings.
  - afsina 13y ago
    You are joking right? Tell me one thing you could do 5,10,20 years ago and cannot do now that supports your future predictions. I am excluding drinking booze in public places.
    - atakan_gurkan 13y ago
      The press could report on these events 10 years ago. Now they don't. The workers could celebrate May day in Taksim square just a few years ago, this year they were banned. People could express themselves more freely if they were not religious or if they were against the government. Now they fear retaliation, losing their job etc. This actually happened to journalists, they did lose their jobs. Hundreds are imprisoned without being convicted or even having a trial for months and years. There are other indications that Turkey is turning into an Islamic (Sunni in particular) state and our culture is being destroyed. Scientists and artists are ridiculed routinely by the politicians in power. They destroyed Turkish Academy of Sciences. They shut down Feza Gürsey institute. They fired majority of people who made Pardus GNU/Linux distribution and Göktürk satellite from TÜBİTAK. Unfortunately, this is no joke.
      - afsina 13y ago
        This was a personal question actually. I am no supporter of current Government, but most things you say can be counter-answered. - Some press reports things less than you like. Some reports with exaggeration. Blame the first group if you want for their cowardice. If second group is alive and kicking, your point is proven to be false. - Taksim Square was actually totally closed to 1st of May events from 1978 to 2010 . It was this government allowed opening it again. This year there is construction so it was not allowed. I remember the horror in Kadikoy in 1996 tough. "People could express themselves more freely if they were not religious or if they were against the government. Now they fear retaliation, losing their job etc." This is just your opinion. I cannot really prove the opposite either. Nepotism is there tough, and cannot be avoided regardless of any government. Journalism issue is problematic and a shame. Most are really PKK related and probably this will change. I cannot say this is something new tough. "Scientists and artists are ridiculed routinely by the politicians in power" they push each others wrong buttons, and politicians are less tolerable indeed. But apart from 1-2 incidents this cannot be generalized. It is a shame that PM does not have a sense of humor. To me, Turkish Academy of Sciences issue is overrated. "Most" guys there weren't doing anything useful in terms of science there anyway. They continue their work in universities or in Tubitak without a loss. Handling of Science and Technology by this government can be criticized but for better or worse, they pour perhaps x10 more money on R&D than previous governments. Do not know what really happened behind pardus and Gokturk issue. Sattelite is on the sky and Pardus turned to Debian, that is what I know.

by JDShu 13y ago

berkay 13y ago

"A quick lookup shows that Erdoğan has been in office for the longest time since the 60s (three terms). To me, fears of Turkey becoming a de facto one-party state seems justified, at least absent any other information." You're on to something. One of the underlying reasons of the protests is not only Erdoğan has been in the office for a long time, but also secular sections of the society has lost hope of change of government within the political system (Opposition is in shambles, AKP will likely win the elections again, etc.) There is no political alternative within the system, hence the growing discontent manifests itself in other ways.

waps 13y ago
If you think the worst is a one-party state, you've not been following the news. The worst is that Erdogan completes his mission : turning turkey in a middle-eastern islamic dictatorship where women are beaten for walking on the street and every tiniest bit of culture dies, violently and with beheadings.
- afsina 13y ago
  You are joking right? Tell me one thing you could do 5,10,20 years ago and cannot do now that supports your future predictions. I am excluding drinking booze in public places.
  - atakan_gurkan 13y ago
    The press could report on these events 10 years ago. Now they don't. The workers could celebrate May day in Taksim square just a few years ago, this year they were banned. People could express themselves more freely if they were not religious or if they were against the government. Now they fear retaliation, losing their job etc. This actually happened to journalists, they did lose their jobs. Hundreds are imprisoned without being convicted or even having a trial for months and years. There are other indications that Turkey is turning into an Islamic (Sunni in particular) state and our culture is being destroyed. Scientists and artists are ridiculed routinely by the politicians in power. They destroyed Turkish Academy of Sciences. They shut down Feza Gürsey institute. They fired majority of people who made Pardus GNU/Linux distribution and Göktürk satellite from TÜBİTAK. Unfortunately, this is no joke.
    - afsina 13y ago
      This was a personal question actually. I am no supporter of current Government, but most things you say can be counter-answered. - Some press reports things less than you like. Some reports with exaggeration. Blame the first group if you want for their cowardice. If second group is alive and kicking, your point is proven to be false. - Taksim Square was actually totally closed to 1st of May events from 1978 to 2010 . It was this government allowed opening it again. This year there is construction so it was not allowed. I remember the horror in Kadikoy in 1996 tough. "People could express themselves more freely if they were not religious or if they were against the government. Now they fear retaliation, losing their job etc." This is just your opinion. I cannot really prove the opposite either. Nepotism is there tough, and cannot be avoided regardless of any government. Journalism issue is problematic and a shame. Most are really PKK related and probably this will change. I cannot say this is something new tough. "Scientists and artists are ridiculed routinely by the politicians in power" they push each others wrong buttons, and politicians are less tolerable indeed. But apart from 1-2 incidents this cannot be generalized. It is a shame that PM does not have a sense of humor. To me, Turkish Academy of Sciences issue is overrated. "Most" guys there weren't doing anything useful in terms of science there anyway. They continue their work in universities or in Tubitak without a loss. Handling of Science and Technology by this government can be criticized but for better or worse, they pour perhaps x10 more money on R&D than previous governments. Do not know what really happened behind pardus and Gokturk issue. Sattelite is on the sky and Pardus turned to Debian, that is what I know.