3 ms·

How does a musician without any formal CS education and a admitted lack of understanding of some very fundamental software things, such as pointers and memory,

by mimog 13y ago

How does a musician without any formal CS education and a admitted lack of understanding of some very fundamental software things, such as pointers and memory, land a San Francisco dev job? I thought those jobs were in very high demand

zeeshanl 13y ago
As a person with a masters in music, a bachelor in film, and now programming for a living, I def. believe that having a persistant interest in learning about those "fundamental software concepts" is what makes such a gig achievable, especially if you keep doing the extra work in your spare time (like taking Dan Grossman's unbelievable Programming Languages class or going through Zed's LCTHW).
- mimog 13y ago
  Given that you have a masters degree in music I would wager it would take me a very long time to get to your level in playing, writing and understanding music. It's doable of course, but I would have a lot of learning and work ahead of me. I think the same would apply to you catching up to someone having a masters degree in computer science or related fields.
  - zeeshanl 13y ago
    I don't have a high opinion of my musical abilities :), but I agree that catching-up is both a doable and daunting process. But, finding niches of interest to focus on usually helps, as it does when crafting really good songs in a specific style, one that matches your musical abilities and understanding. You may not have the chops, but you can still create amazing work. With programming, I have the issue of wanting to catch up on everything and do side-projects (eventually, I'll run through this class => http://faculty.cs.byu.edu/~jay/courses/2012/fall/330/course/gc.html http://faculty.cs.byu.edu/~jay/courses/2012/fall/330/course/...), but I have found success in trying to pick-up things in conjunction with a task at hand. If I have to build a web service, I'll start that research simultaneously. Starting IOS work... then spend time with C, understand Objective-C's runtime, read about the history (and play around with Smalltalk). This piece-meal approach seems to make the jump more "doable" in my opinion. I think that people without a CS degree can obtain a good, challenging gig if they have a good niche to school themselves in, and of course, pick-up the gaps from the people they work along with who have that background/knowledge.
binarycrusader 13y ago
You'd be surprised at how far "not an asshole, actively learns, and is good at programming" can get someone.
- ryalfalpha 13y ago
  I'd replace 'good at programming' with 'proven ability to ship'. Most of the time it's values way over a decent codebase from what I can see. Which is often fair enough!
- zedshaw 13y ago
  Not as far as "total asshole, does coke, and actively kisses ass" does at the same companies. <rimshot>
  - jacques_chester 13y ago
    And you've only got 1 out of 3. :) <rimshot>
stefantalpalaru 13y ago
Sometimes social skills are more important than technical prowess.
- ksikka 13y ago
  not more important
mc-lovin 13y ago
I was in a similar situation to the author: largely self-taught, very little formal training or knowledge of the "big picture" ideas. It's a bit like learning a language. You can learn a foreign language without formally studying grammar, and most of the time you will instinctively get things right, and have an intuitive idea of how grammar works. But formally studying the grammar of a new language makes learning much faster, and you have a deeper understanding.

by mimog 13y ago

zeeshanl 13y ago

As a person with a masters in music, a bachelor in film, and now programming for a living, I def. believe that having a persistant interest in learning about those "fundamental software concepts" is what makes such a gig achievable, especially if you keep doing the extra work in your spare time (like taking Dan Grossman's unbelievable Programming Languages class or going through Zed's LCTHW).

mimog 13y ago
Given that you have a masters degree in music I would wager it would take me a very long time to get to your level in playing, writing and understanding music. It's doable of course, but I would have a lot of learning and work ahead of me. I think the same would apply to you catching up to someone having a masters degree in computer science or related fields.
- zeeshanl 13y ago
  I don't have a high opinion of my musical abilities :), but I agree that catching-up is both a doable and daunting process. But, finding niches of interest to focus on usually helps, as it does when crafting really good songs in a specific style, one that matches your musical abilities and understanding. You may not have the chops, but you can still create amazing work. With programming, I have the issue of wanting to catch up on everything and do side-projects (eventually, I'll run through this class => http://faculty.cs.byu.edu/~jay/courses/2012/fall/330/course/gc.html http://faculty.cs.byu.edu/~jay/courses/2012/fall/330/course/...), but I have found success in trying to pick-up things in conjunction with a task at hand. If I have to build a web service, I'll start that research simultaneously. Starting IOS work... then spend time with C, understand Objective-C's runtime, read about the history (and play around with Smalltalk). This piece-meal approach seems to make the jump more "doable" in my opinion. I think that people without a CS degree can obtain a good, challenging gig if they have a good niche to school themselves in, and of course, pick-up the gaps from the people they work along with who have that background/knowledge.

binarycrusader 13y ago

You'd be surprised at how far "not an asshole, actively learns, and is good at programming" can get someone.

ryalfalpha 13y ago
I'd replace 'good at programming' with 'proven ability to ship'. Most of the time it's values way over a decent codebase from what I can see. Which is often fair enough!
zedshaw 13y ago
Not as far as "total asshole, does coke, and actively kisses ass" does at the same companies. <rimshot>
- jacques_chester 13y ago
  And you've only got 1 out of 3. :) <rimshot>

stefantalpalaru 13y ago

Sometimes social skills are more important than technical prowess.

ksikka 13y ago
not more important

mc-lovin 13y ago

I was in a similar situation to the author: largely self-taught, very little formal training or knowledge of the "big picture" ideas. It's a bit like learning a language. You can learn a foreign language without formally studying grammar, and most of the time you will instinctively get things right, and have an intuitive idea of how grammar works. But formally studying the grammar of a new language makes learning much faster, and you have a deeper understanding.