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One of the most challenging aspects of learning about important, under-reported events is correcting for the biases of individuals who are reporting on it For

One of the most challenging aspects of learning about important, under-reported events is correcting for the biases of individuals who are reporting on it For example, while there are no doubt many shopping malls in Istanbul, I doubt there is "at least one in every neighborhood!" (unless that word is better translated as something more like a suburb) This makes it harder to trust all of the details of the more serious accounts of police aggression, or the simplifed context of things like "The whole country is being sold to corporations by the government". As another commenter has pointed out, even photos can end up being from unrelated events. This is not to say that this person's perspective is not extremely important, or that the Turkish state is not committing indefensible acts of aggression. It's just harder for outsiders to piece together a full and accurate picture of what is happening. Fortunately, multiple individual perspectives can help corroborate and enhance the picture to quite a degree. Edit: Certainly media has biases too, although there are at least in theory standards for verifying reported facts, and the bias is (often) more about what they choose not report or what context is not given. Edit: good points by buro as well. This account and others may well be very reliable, I'm more speaking from experience with past events that were reported in similar ways where key important facts turned out to be wrong or missing. (I know, that happens sometimes in traditional media too)

monsterix 13y ago
> One of the most challenging aspects of learning about important, under-reported events is correcting for the biases of individuals who are reporting on it. This is true for well-reported or over-reported events too. It's always an individual who reporting things, and thus the process of reporting itself involuntarily bakes in the opinion or ideology of the agent reporting the issue. It's up to us to take whatever we'd want to as credible. Also in the context of Internet it is more likely to be the absolute truth, after Streisand effect and everything else is done with. My assumptions in situations like this: No smoke without fire. Just did a small search on Youtube and found out that reports of civilians been crushed under Panzers is TRUE [1]. And now the discussion on testing credibility and stripping out emotions from reporting standards sounds bullshit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HmSwJEuFjxk http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H... [Edits: Added a link to a video of individual being crushed under a anti-riot Panzer vehicle. Not very graphic, but serious.]
- mikenuman 13y ago
  Not crushed, he limps off to the right side. Not to say that this isn't serious, but he looked OK.
diminish 13y ago
that's true but big media biases are sometimes a bigger issue. on the web, the truth is 10mins and few clicks away.
- olavk 13y ago
  Do you have a link to "the truth"?
chris_wot 13y ago
It's hyperbole. I think most people can see through "at least one in every neighborhood" as an emotional response to what is happening.
- chris_wot 13y ago
  Really? Downvotes for this comment? Curious as to why.
  - filip01 13y ago
    They probably interpret your use of "emotional" as "irrationally emotional".
    - chris_wot 13y ago
      Sorry, I ever meant to imply that.
buro9 13y ago
Sure but some things are quite easily researchable online. You doubt that there is a mall in every neighbourhood, but a quick look on Google Maps: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=shopping+mall&hl=en&ll=41.041556,29.036007&spn=0.13012,0.098705&sll=41.041556,29.00322&sspn=0.13012,0.164108&hq=shopping+mall&t=m&z=13 http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=shopping+mall&hl=en&... And yup, there are a phenomenal number of shopping malls, some only a couple of hundred meters from another. I did spot check quite a few, looked at a few of the websites, and they are all multi-level, large shopping malls. In fact this one is a mere 300m from Gezi Park: http://www.demirorenistiklal.com/ http://www.demirorenistiklal.com/ The great thing about the internet is that it is possible to get a sense of whether a claim is true or not very swiftly. On the one fact you doubt and then use as an example to undermine the rest of the argument, a quick search verifies that claim. (Should you revisit the doubt you extended to the rest of the argument in light of some evidence to the claims that you used to undermine it?) Of course there is emotion in there too (the government selling the nation to corporations), but we're mostly rational and will spot that surely. The fundamental question is whether or not the reports in general speak of a true event, and overwhelmingly they do appear so. The level of consistency in the very many reports and sources is too much to be attributable and dismissed as any individual being emotional... of course they are emotional; some of their friends, family and fellow citizens are dead, others are in hospital or jail.
- glurgh 13y ago
  Just because you can type them into google doesn't mean they're 'easily researchable'. How many shopping malls in NYC? https://maps.google.com/maps?q=shopping+mall&hl=en&ll=40.730348,-73.993092&spn=0.074277,0.119648&sll=40.714476,-74.005966&sspn=0.074295,0.119648&gl=us&hq=shopping+mall&t=m&z=13 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=shopping+mall&hl=en&l... These results seem pretty lousy and not particularly different from those from Istanbul.
  - buro9 13y ago
    That is why I checked them before posting, viewed web sites and confirmed that the majority of results are actually shopping malls. That's a really bad set of results for NYC though.
chrismcb 13y ago
I recently returned from Istanbul. While there isn't a shopping mall on every corner, it sure seems like. I'm sure every city has a "x on every corner" that isn't literally true, but x is more numerous that one might imagine. I was amazed not at the number of malls in Istanbul, but the sheer size of them. Each one seemed bigger than the last, and the first seemed like the largest mall I've ever seen. Now Istanbul is a large metropolis, home to almost 20 million people. And there was way more shopping that I would have expected. Is this person exaggerating? Of course, but not as much as you might think.
thoughtcriminal 13y ago
It's heartbreaking when I see a comment like this voted up to the top. Are you saying anything new here? Is there anything in your remarks that is insightful? No. This kind of comment appears in practically Every. Single. news discussion. Can't we just make a blanket statement like this as a sticky, and put it at the top of each story? A kind of brief disclaimer or IANAL?
- doktrin 13y ago
  Relevant : http://www.xkcd.com/1215/ http://www.xkcd.com/1215/
subsystem 13y ago
Your doubt is noted. It might be that your definition of either neighborhood or shopping mall differs somewhat from the local one, but since you don't actually explain why you doubt it I can't know. "Shopping centers can be considered as a very young concept in Turkey, since the history goes back only to the late 80s. However, once the malls appeared on the shopping scene, the Turks embraced them. Almost every neighborhood has at least one." http://www.wittistanbul.com/magazine/top-9-shopping-centers-in-istanbul/ http://www.wittistanbul.com/magazine/top-9-shopping-centers-... That said, it's not a literal statement. It's about rapid gentrification. It's happening all over Europe if not the world. It can get especially nasty when mixed with corruption, since there is great incentive to support large businesses over local ones. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/05/world/middleeast/05iht-m05-turkey-tarlabasi.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/05/world/middleeast/05iht-m05... http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ad.1011/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ad.1011/abstract

monsterix 13y ago

> One of the most challenging aspects of learning about important, under-reported events is correcting for the biases of individuals who are reporting on it. This is true for well-reported or over-reported events too. It's always an individual who reporting things, and thus the process of reporting itself involuntarily bakes in the opinion or ideology of the agent reporting the issue. It's up to us to take whatever we'd want to as credible. Also in the context of Internet it is more likely to be the absolute truth, after Streisand effect and everything else is done with. My assumptions in situations like this: No smoke without fire. Just did a small search on Youtube and found out that reports of civilians been crushed under Panzers is TRUE [1]. And now the discussion on testing credibility and stripping out emotions from reporting standards sounds bullshit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HmSwJEuFjxk http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H... [Edits: Added a link to a video of individual being crushed under a anti-riot Panzer vehicle. Not very graphic, but serious.]

mikenuman 13y ago
Not crushed, he limps off to the right side. Not to say that this isn't serious, but he looked OK.

diminish 13y ago

that's true but big media biases are sometimes a bigger issue. on the web, the truth is 10mins and few clicks away.

olavk 13y ago
Do you have a link to "the truth"?

chris_wot 13y ago

It's hyperbole. I think most people can see through "at least one in every neighborhood" as an emotional response to what is happening.

chris_wot 13y ago
Really? Downvotes for this comment? Curious as to why.
- filip01 13y ago
  They probably interpret your use of "emotional" as "irrationally emotional".
  - chris_wot 13y ago
    Sorry, I ever meant to imply that.

buro9 13y ago

Sure but some things are quite easily researchable online. You doubt that there is a mall in every neighbourhood, but a quick look on Google Maps: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=shopping+mall&hl=en&ll=41.041556,29.036007&spn=0.13012,0.098705&sll=41.041556,29.00322&sspn=0.13012,0.164108&hq=shopping+mall&t=m&z=13 http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=shopping+mall&hl=en&... And yup, there are a phenomenal number of shopping malls, some only a couple of hundred meters from another. I did spot check quite a few, looked at a few of the websites, and they are all multi-level, large shopping malls. In fact this one is a mere 300m from Gezi Park: http://www.demirorenistiklal.com/ http://www.demirorenistiklal.com/ The great thing about the internet is that it is possible to get a sense of whether a claim is true or not very swiftly. On the one fact you doubt and then use as an example to undermine the rest of the argument, a quick search verifies that claim. (Should you revisit the doubt you extended to the rest of the argument in light of some evidence to the claims that you used to undermine it?) Of course there is emotion in there too (the government selling the nation to corporations), but we're mostly rational and will spot that surely. The fundamental question is whether or not the reports in general speak of a true event, and overwhelmingly they do appear so. The level of consistency in the very many reports and sources is too much to be attributable and dismissed as any individual being emotional... of course they are emotional; some of their friends, family and fellow citizens are dead, others are in hospital or jail.

glurgh 13y ago
Just because you can type them into google doesn't mean they're 'easily researchable'. How many shopping malls in NYC? https://maps.google.com/maps?q=shopping+mall&hl=en&ll=40.730348,-73.993092&spn=0.074277,0.119648&sll=40.714476,-74.005966&sspn=0.074295,0.119648&gl=us&hq=shopping+mall&t=m&z=13 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=shopping+mall&hl=en&l... These results seem pretty lousy and not particularly different from those from Istanbul.
- buro9 13y ago
  That is why I checked them before posting, viewed web sites and confirmed that the majority of results are actually shopping malls. That's a really bad set of results for NYC though.

chrismcb 13y ago

I recently returned from Istanbul. While there isn't a shopping mall on every corner, it sure seems like. I'm sure every city has a "x on every corner" that isn't literally true, but x is more numerous that one might imagine. I was amazed not at the number of malls in Istanbul, but the sheer size of them. Each one seemed bigger than the last, and the first seemed like the largest mall I've ever seen. Now Istanbul is a large metropolis, home to almost 20 million people. And there was way more shopping that I would have expected. Is this person exaggerating? Of course, but not as much as you might think.

thoughtcriminal 13y ago

It's heartbreaking when I see a comment like this voted up to the top. Are you saying anything new here? Is there anything in your remarks that is insightful? No. This kind of comment appears in practically Every. Single. news discussion. Can't we just make a blanket statement like this as a sticky, and put it at the top of each story? A kind of brief disclaimer or IANAL?

doktrin 13y ago
Relevant : http://www.xkcd.com/1215/ http://www.xkcd.com/1215/

subsystem 13y ago

Your doubt is noted. It might be that your definition of either neighborhood or shopping mall differs somewhat from the local one, but since you don't actually explain why you doubt it I can't know. "Shopping centers can be considered as a very young concept in Turkey, since the history goes back only to the late 80s. However, once the malls appeared on the shopping scene, the Turks embraced them. Almost every neighborhood has at least one." http://www.wittistanbul.com/magazine/top-9-shopping-centers-in-istanbul/ http://www.wittistanbul.com/magazine/top-9-shopping-centers-... That said, it's not a literal statement. It's about rapid gentrification. It's happening all over Europe if not the world. It can get especially nasty when mixed with corruption, since there is great incentive to support large businesses over local ones. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/05/world/middleeast/05iht-m05-turkey-tarlabasi.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/05/world/middleeast/05iht-m05... http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ad.1011/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ad.1011/abstract