4 ms·

> Muslim democratic state. There are very, very few religious democracies, and if you only consider those both officially and effectively religious, I won’t be

> Muslim democratic state. There are very, very few religious democracies, and if you only consider those both officially and effectively religious, I won’t be able to name a single one.

uh_oh 13y ago
Turkey was famously founded as a secular state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C3%AFcit%C3%A9#Turkey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C3%AFcit%C3%A9#Turkey). Things may have changed, but still ... "Muslim" probably just refers to the fact that most people living there are muslim.
- DamnYuppie 13y ago
  I believe this is still a large portion this is Greek Orthodox Christians as well. Yet I do believe the majority are indeed Muslims.
pessimizer 13y ago
Turkey isn't officially a Muslim state, it's Muslim by vast majority. It's starting to become effectively religious.
nsns 13y ago
There's that extremely influential one, whose currency states "in god we trust".
- nijk 13y ago
  Deism has a negligible force as a religion. It is only used as a buzzword label to use when attacking enemies like USSR. It has no practical force on its own. If the phrase were "in USA we trust" it would have the same affect. In fact, the word "Unamerican" was used interchangeably with "godless" when it was at its height, and atheism wasn't even close to requisite for being labelled such.
markdown 13y ago
> I won’t be able to name a single one. UK?
- tome 13y ago
  The UK is a democracy with a state religion and a monarch. Weird.
- desas 13y ago
  officially religious but not effectively.
dodyg 13y ago
Indonesia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancasila_(politics) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancasila_(politics) In Indonesia, you are not allowed to be atheist. You must declare yourself as a follower of one of the 6 state sanctioned religions.
arrrg 13y ago
I think this description was more akin to describing the USA or Germany as “Christian democratic states” as a majority in both of those are Christians. It doesn’t mean that Christianity is the state religion or something. Turkey has been a successful majority Muslim but very secular and democratic state for a very long time. Maybe that’s changing … (Ah, decisions, decisions. Sometimes I think the EU should have accelerated making a move on letting Turkey join. There are substantial risks associated with that, sure, but I also think that the EU would have had a significant chance of changing the trajectory Turkey is on.)
- vidarh 13y ago
  > Turkey has been a successful majority Muslim but very secular and democratic state for a very long time. Maybe that’s changing … Uhm. Military coups in: 1960, 1971, 1980, as well as substantial intervention in the succession of power in 1997 that many considers a coup. The secular nature of the Turkish state has largely remained as secular as it is because the Turkish military has a tendency to conduct coups whenever they deem someone is trying to introduce religiously motivated laws, coupled with a legal system that is frequently used to shut down political parties that mix politics and religion. Turkey does not exactly have a very solid democratic tradition yet. We have yet to see if the "Memorandum" issued in 1997 and allowing the current government is a sign the military has softened it's stance, but it's very clear that so far at least, the elected Turkish governments serve at the mercy of the military.
  - cdash 13y ago
    The Turkish military is much weaker than it used to be with the government having thrown many of its top leaders into prison accusing them of planning yet another coup and replacing with people that are sided with Erdogan. Still, it has a long history of stepping in if secularism is threatened so it will be interesting to see what happens in the future if Erdogan is able to stay in power and keep on implementing more and more religious policies.
  - arrrg 13y ago
    Eh. Close enough, honestly.

> Muslim democratic state. There are very, very few religious democracies, and if you only consider those both officially and effectively religious, I won’t be able to name a single one.

uh_oh 13y ago

Turkey was famously founded as a secular state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C3%AFcit%C3%A9#Turkey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La%C3%AFcit%C3%A9#Turkey). Things may have changed, but still ... "Muslim" probably just refers to the fact that most people living there are muslim.

DamnYuppie 13y ago
I believe this is still a large portion this is Greek Orthodox Christians as well. Yet I do believe the majority are indeed Muslims.

pessimizer 13y ago

Turkey isn't officially a Muslim state, it's Muslim by vast majority. It's starting to become effectively religious.

nsns 13y ago

There's that extremely influential one, whose currency states "in god we trust".

nijk 13y ago
Deism has a negligible force as a religion. It is only used as a buzzword label to use when attacking enemies like USSR. It has no practical force on its own. If the phrase were "in USA we trust" it would have the same affect. In fact, the word "Unamerican" was used interchangeably with "godless" when it was at its height, and atheism wasn't even close to requisite for being labelled such.

markdown 13y ago

> I won’t be able to name a single one. UK?

tome 13y ago
The UK is a democracy with a state religion and a monarch. Weird.
desas 13y ago
officially religious but not effectively.

dodyg 13y ago

Indonesia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancasila_(politics) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancasila_(politics) In Indonesia, you are not allowed to be atheist. You must declare yourself as a follower of one of the 6 state sanctioned religions.

arrrg 13y ago

I think this description was more akin to describing the USA or Germany as “Christian democratic states” as a majority in both of those are Christians. It doesn’t mean that Christianity is the state religion or something. Turkey has been a successful majority Muslim but very secular and democratic state for a very long time. Maybe that’s changing … (Ah, decisions, decisions. Sometimes I think the EU should have accelerated making a move on letting Turkey join. There are substantial risks associated with that, sure, but I also think that the EU would have had a significant chance of changing the trajectory Turkey is on.)

vidarh 13y ago
> Turkey has been a successful majority Muslim but very secular and democratic state for a very long time. Maybe that’s changing … Uhm. Military coups in: 1960, 1971, 1980, as well as substantial intervention in the succession of power in 1997 that many considers a coup. The secular nature of the Turkish state has largely remained as secular as it is because the Turkish military has a tendency to conduct coups whenever they deem someone is trying to introduce religiously motivated laws, coupled with a legal system that is frequently used to shut down political parties that mix politics and religion. Turkey does not exactly have a very solid democratic tradition yet. We have yet to see if the "Memorandum" issued in 1997 and allowing the current government is a sign the military has softened it's stance, but it's very clear that so far at least, the elected Turkish governments serve at the mercy of the military.
- cdash 13y ago
  The Turkish military is much weaker than it used to be with the government having thrown many of its top leaders into prison accusing them of planning yet another coup and replacing with people that are sided with Erdogan. Still, it has a long history of stepping in if secularism is threatened so it will be interesting to see what happens in the future if Erdogan is able to stay in power and keep on implementing more and more religious policies.
- arrrg 13y ago
  Eh. Close enough, honestly.