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That seems indicate a flaw in the O visa process, in terms of its ability to recognize outstanding talent, rather than the need to expand a lottery based system

That seems indicate a flaw in the O visa process, in terms of its ability to recognize outstanding talent, rather than the need to expand a lottery based system not designed to bring the "best and brightest." A best and brightest program should also include a hard compensation floor. $120K is far from an elite level wage for a SV SW Engineer, but I suspect even that would be a non-starter for the interests lobbying for an expanded H1B program.

pandaman 13y ago
Well, if you have better ideas how to identify "best and brightest" that can be implemented by bureaucrats, backed by paper trail and not easily exploitable - everyone would be happy to hear it. O1 works for scholars quite well it's just programmers are not usually scholars so they are out of luck here. H1B already has salary floor and protections against body shops built in. The problem is with enforcement: most recipients of H1Bs are working for "consulting" companies (Tata, IBM, Wipro, L&T, Cognizant etc) and one can safely guess that these people are going to be contracted out, something that you should not be able to do on H1B. However the USCIS ignores this and keeps stamping these visas.
- dougabug 13y ago
  I've known H1Bs whose salaries were laughably below the median salary for a top SW Engineer in SV. A hard salary floor would be analogous to the AMT for income tax, ensuring that actual salaries reached a minimum acceptable level. The desire for tech companies to underpay the very people who make this industry possible simply does not represent a crisis for me. The non-poaching arrangements between major tech giants demonstrates their desire to hold down engineering compensation. If bringing the best sw engineers to America is truly a priority, and I would say that it should be, then that problem should be solved as it has been for scholars. The argument that the H1-B program is that solution is disingenuous at best.
  - pandaman 13y ago
    Right now the DOL is supposed to set the minimum salary for H1B, judging by your dissatisfaction it's not doing this job. Why do you think it's suddenly going to be better if you set some arbitrary figure for salary? Not to mention the H1B is not exclusively for programmers, is it going to be $120K for everybody, including nurses and models? > If bringing the best sw engineers to America is truly a priority, and I would say that it should be, then that problem should be solved as it has been for scholars. The problem with programmers is that there is no objective criteria for what is "best". There is hardly one for scholars. Scholar criteria are objective but they do not select the best, it's assumed that you would not want to bring sub-par scholars yourself. It's same with other skilled professions - you can only verify they have skills objectively, it's impossible to verify they are the best. So I am not making argument that H1B is bringing only the best and nobody else. However I don't see a practical way to bring the best without getting also a bunch of fake resume "consultants". Personally I don't care much - "consultants" cannot do my job so they are not competing with me. I am just a bit annoyed with the people who barely can open a text editor and copy/paste code calling themselves "sw engineers".

pandaman 13y ago

Well, if you have better ideas how to identify "best and brightest" that can be implemented by bureaucrats, backed by paper trail and not easily exploitable - everyone would be happy to hear it. O1 works for scholars quite well it's just programmers are not usually scholars so they are out of luck here. H1B already has salary floor and protections against body shops built in. The problem is with enforcement: most recipients of H1Bs are working for "consulting" companies (Tata, IBM, Wipro, L&T, Cognizant etc) and one can safely guess that these people are going to be contracted out, something that you should not be able to do on H1B. However the USCIS ignores this and keeps stamping these visas.

dougabug 13y ago
I've known H1Bs whose salaries were laughably below the median salary for a top SW Engineer in SV. A hard salary floor would be analogous to the AMT for income tax, ensuring that actual salaries reached a minimum acceptable level. The desire for tech companies to underpay the very people who make this industry possible simply does not represent a crisis for me. The non-poaching arrangements between major tech giants demonstrates their desire to hold down engineering compensation. If bringing the best sw engineers to America is truly a priority, and I would say that it should be, then that problem should be solved as it has been for scholars. The argument that the H1-B program is that solution is disingenuous at best.
- pandaman 13y ago
  Right now the DOL is supposed to set the minimum salary for H1B, judging by your dissatisfaction it's not doing this job. Why do you think it's suddenly going to be better if you set some arbitrary figure for salary? Not to mention the H1B is not exclusively for programmers, is it going to be $120K for everybody, including nurses and models? > If bringing the best sw engineers to America is truly a priority, and I would say that it should be, then that problem should be solved as it has been for scholars. The problem with programmers is that there is no objective criteria for what is "best". There is hardly one for scholars. Scholar criteria are objective but they do not select the best, it's assumed that you would not want to bring sub-par scholars yourself. It's same with other skilled professions - you can only verify they have skills objectively, it's impossible to verify they are the best. So I am not making argument that H1B is bringing only the best and nobody else. However I don't see a practical way to bring the best without getting also a bunch of fake resume "consultants". Personally I don't care much - "consultants" cannot do my job so they are not competing with me. I am just a bit annoyed with the people who barely can open a text editor and copy/paste code calling themselves "sw engineers".