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If the start of this post put you off because it sounds arrogant, please keep reading. It is an intentional setup to highlight the core point, which I think is

If the start of this post put you off because it sounds arrogant, please keep reading. It is an intentional setup to highlight the core point, which I think is in this paragraph: But the environment matters a lot less than the fact that when I get home from work—which is a two hour commute each way (sorry, I can’t afford to live in downtown San Francisco)—I just feel like being mentally incapacitated. Occasionally I have a little spark of brilliance (relative, not absolute) that motivates me to write a short bit of code, but the code is never more than one or two hundred lines. It usually consists of some little trick. That is: you cannot fight your day-to-day work — long-term — by working on your own stuff, when you get home after already spending 6-7 hours working and thinking in a particular way. The author tagged it "sad" for a reason.

jdotjdot 13y ago
Agreed. What if we could have a world where work was the pursuit of intellectual growth rather than the pursuit of money? What would it be like?
- mikeash 13y ago
  I'll play the part of the economist and say that this world would primarily be hungry and cold.
  - vijayr 13y ago
    It would also be a world of half finished projects. Most people who do things just for the sheer joy of learning, challenge, art etc would lose interest in a task when the challenge is conquered.
- seanp2k2 13y ago
  >"What if we could have a world where work was the pursuit of intellectual growth rather than the pursuit of money? What would it be like?" Non-existent, because people are greedy and will always want more than their fellow man. Even if /you/ don't personally, most of the people around you probably do. This is the #1 reason I get depressed about this life.
  - TeMPOraL 13y ago
    If such a world wouldn't be a zero-sum game, then the greedy could have their wealth, and others could pursue other things, and those two goals wouldn't conflict.
    - jdotjdot 13y ago
      Isn't that kind of how it is right now?
      - TeMPOraL 13y ago
        It mostly is, which is why, unlike OP, I don't see the reason for it to stop.
doktrin 13y ago
> you cannot fight your day-to-day work — long-term — by working on your own stuff, when you get home after already spending 6-7 hours working and thinking in a particular way. The author tagged it "sad" for a reason. That's precisely why this post resonated with me. Even short of literally switching mind sets, I find it tricky to get motivated to code after spending ~8 hours at work (coding). As it stands, I even find myself stressing out over weekends due to not being "productive" enough on side projects. Of slightly more relevance to the author, having done the 2-hour commute in SV (granted, from SF to Menlo because socially I couldn't stand the latter), I strongly recommend against it. Housing accommodations can be found in SF for a developer's wage, and I would strongly urge anyone and everyone to avoid spending 4 hours of their life each day in transit. It makes a difference.
- mooreds 13y ago
  I think of a 4 hour commute as (at least) a 33% pay cut. Unless you're getting paid to commute.
  - maxerickson 13y ago
    I wonder if it is possible to construct a sensible tax that punishes commuters. Not because I think they deserve it or anything, more because people tend to be highly adaptable and commuting (speaking in generalities) stinks. Edit: I guess various congestion taxes are exactly what I suggest.
    - scotch_drinker 13y ago
      It would also likely be an extremely regressive tax so I'm not sure it would ever be sensible. People live in the suburbs because they can afford something that doesn't suck. The ultra poor and the ultra rich live in the city, the rest of us commute. And that's only slightly hyperbolic.
    - saraid216 13y ago
      I recommend this book as relevant to your interests: http://www.amazon.com/Walkable-City-Downtown-Save-America/dp/0374285810 http://www.amazon.com/Walkable-City-Downtown-Save-America/dp... Speck is kinda acerbic, but if you can get past this, his points are very good.
megaframe 13y ago
I did some side work that applied to work. Something that interested me, but on my own free time. I've moved on to other hobby projects, but now those side projects have become a big deal at work. Now I'm getting assigned my usual work plus the task of bringing up this side project. I refuse to give them my personal time so there are never enough hours to get anything beyond my regular work (and what are considered the highest priority) done. It's definitely having a drain on me and I have to keep reminding myself its their problem how they prioritize things. I won't hand them more of my personal time. Occasionally I get to point this out as I'm pulled into meetings where the update is no update, which amuses me.
mamoswined 13y ago
It is sad. This part stood out for me " I wasn’t demanded of much: maybe to keep my room clean and to help out around the house occasionally." Sometimes I wonder if there isn't a niche for someone to teach people like this how to live a little better. Like really basic things people used to take for granted such as cooking, being outside, and eating meals with friends and family. It took spending some time on a family farm to make my realize that while I had "success" I had a very low quality of life, one that just wasn't worth it in the long run. It makes me sad to see posts about things like "Soylent." It's like how much of humanity can we prune off in the pursuit of coding as much as possible? I quit my Manhattan job with the long commute and moved to a cheaper, though still vibrant city. I sleep eight hours a night, I cook meals from scratch, I have friends I see almost every day, I walk to work, and in general my quality of life is very very high. My job is fairly "boring", but I have the energy to work on my own side projects. Don't forget that you are not a robot. That very simple things can make a human being's life better, like sleep and friends and good food.

jdotjdot 13y ago

Agreed. What if we could have a world where work was the pursuit of intellectual growth rather than the pursuit of money? What would it be like?

mikeash 13y ago
I'll play the part of the economist and say that this world would primarily be hungry and cold.
- vijayr 13y ago
  It would also be a world of half finished projects. Most people who do things just for the sheer joy of learning, challenge, art etc would lose interest in a task when the challenge is conquered.
seanp2k2 13y ago
>"What if we could have a world where work was the pursuit of intellectual growth rather than the pursuit of money? What would it be like?" Non-existent, because people are greedy and will always want more than their fellow man. Even if /you/ don't personally, most of the people around you probably do. This is the #1 reason I get depressed about this life.
- TeMPOraL 13y ago
  If such a world wouldn't be a zero-sum game, then the greedy could have their wealth, and others could pursue other things, and those two goals wouldn't conflict.
  - jdotjdot 13y ago
    Isn't that kind of how it is right now?
    - TeMPOraL 13y ago
      It mostly is, which is why, unlike OP, I don't see the reason for it to stop.

doktrin 13y ago

> you cannot fight your day-to-day work — long-term — by working on your own stuff, when you get home after already spending 6-7 hours working and thinking in a particular way. The author tagged it "sad" for a reason. That's precisely why this post resonated with me. Even short of literally switching mind sets, I find it tricky to get motivated to code after spending ~8 hours at work (coding). As it stands, I even find myself stressing out over weekends due to not being "productive" enough on side projects. Of slightly more relevance to the author, having done the 2-hour commute in SV (granted, from SF to Menlo because socially I couldn't stand the latter), I strongly recommend against it. Housing accommodations can be found in SF for a developer's wage, and I would strongly urge anyone and everyone to avoid spending 4 hours of their life each day in transit. It makes a difference.

mooreds 13y ago
I think of a 4 hour commute as (at least) a 33% pay cut. Unless you're getting paid to commute.
- maxerickson 13y ago
  I wonder if it is possible to construct a sensible tax that punishes commuters. Not because I think they deserve it or anything, more because people tend to be highly adaptable and commuting (speaking in generalities) stinks. Edit: I guess various congestion taxes are exactly what I suggest.
  - scotch_drinker 13y ago
    It would also likely be an extremely regressive tax so I'm not sure it would ever be sensible. People live in the suburbs because they can afford something that doesn't suck. The ultra poor and the ultra rich live in the city, the rest of us commute. And that's only slightly hyperbolic.
  - saraid216 13y ago
    I recommend this book as relevant to your interests: http://www.amazon.com/Walkable-City-Downtown-Save-America/dp/0374285810 http://www.amazon.com/Walkable-City-Downtown-Save-America/dp... Speck is kinda acerbic, but if you can get past this, his points are very good.

megaframe 13y ago

I did some side work that applied to work. Something that interested me, but on my own free time. I've moved on to other hobby projects, but now those side projects have become a big deal at work. Now I'm getting assigned my usual work plus the task of bringing up this side project. I refuse to give them my personal time so there are never enough hours to get anything beyond my regular work (and what are considered the highest priority) done. It's definitely having a drain on me and I have to keep reminding myself its their problem how they prioritize things. I won't hand them more of my personal time. Occasionally I get to point this out as I'm pulled into meetings where the update is no update, which amuses me.

mamoswined 13y ago

It is sad. This part stood out for me " I wasn’t demanded of much: maybe to keep my room clean and to help out around the house occasionally." Sometimes I wonder if there isn't a niche for someone to teach people like this how to live a little better. Like really basic things people used to take for granted such as cooking, being outside, and eating meals with friends and family. It took spending some time on a family farm to make my realize that while I had "success" I had a very low quality of life, one that just wasn't worth it in the long run. It makes me sad to see posts about things like "Soylent." It's like how much of humanity can we prune off in the pursuit of coding as much as possible? I quit my Manhattan job with the long commute and moved to a cheaper, though still vibrant city. I sleep eight hours a night, I cook meals from scratch, I have friends I see almost every day, I walk to work, and in general my quality of life is very very high. My job is fairly "boring", but I have the energy to work on my own side projects. Don't forget that you are not a robot. That very simple things can make a human being's life better, like sleep and friends and good food.