7 ms·

These results are odd. The three startups (two YC alums) I interviewed with in the Bay offered me ~60K each time, and wouldn't go any higher.

acchow 13y ago
They don't have money to throw around. Probably would have given you meaningful (lifechanging?) equity tho.
- sbierwagen 13y ago
  "Lifechanging" only if you win the startup lottery. 95% of YC startups fail.
  - reeses 13y ago
    The statistics, it burnses, it burnses. Can we leave any percentages and probability out of this conversation? Think of the children!
  - beambot 13y ago
    37 / 511 (7.25%) are worth greater than $40MM, and that doesn't take into account that many are too young to be decided yet [1]. Not sure if that confirms or refutes your comment (were you being cheeky?), but at least it's a source rather than a statistic without evidence. [1] http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/26/paul-graham-37-y-combinator-companies-have-valuations-of-or-sold-for-at-least-40m/ http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/26/paul-graham-37-y-combinator...
    - codeonfire 13y ago
      0.05% of $40MM is $20k, which is not "Lifechanging".
      - mattj 13y ago
        If they can't afford to pay a market salary, you should be getting at least 0.5% (and probably more like 1%). Still not life changing at 40mm with no dilution (200-400k), but a little more meaningful.
        pdog 13y ago
        How many startup employees (not founders or investors) are getting even 0.5-1% effective equity?
        jon_dahl 13y ago
        If you're a non-junior engineer, and one of the first ~10 employees, this is fairly common. At least at the point of issuance; 2-3 VC rounds reduces the percentage (but increases the value, at least in theory).
        nirvdrum 13y ago
        Dilution isn't the only thing to worry about. This post has a pretty good treatment: http://rob.by/2013/negotiating-your-startup-job-offer/ http://rob.by/2013/negotiating-your-startup-job-offer/ It's pretty unlikely you'll see anywhere near those numbers.
        greghinch 13y ago
        Most of the YC companies seem to be favoring "large seed" rounds, which are at levels that might have, in recent years, been more appropriate for A rounds. The $6mil seeds, and such. That probably leaves them in a position of: a) not a lot of equity left to spread around b) it's a seed round, so there's little to no revenue coming in yet, which means they want to hold onto as much of that cash as possible. Depending on how the deal was done with investors, they may have such a small options pool that you're never going to get the 1% you want, and yet they also are not going to pay the $100k+ you are worth. What they are offering you is the "prestige" of working for a YC company, and it's your call if you think that has future value for you or not. Now if you get hired by one of these and they make it for a few more years, and you stick around, your salary will likely go up significantly and additional options be granted (though you'll probably need to make an effort to ask), but I wouldn't count on getting life changing equity out of any startup if you're joining after they've raised 7 figures or more.
    - CoachRufus87 13y ago
      Being worth something and seeing cold hard cash are 2 different things.
      - robryan 13y ago
        Yeah, only a handful of >$40MM exits. Really we won't have a more complete picture for another 5 years or more.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
  - yekko 13y ago
    99.9%+ won't even make you a millionaire. Be a founder or VC instead.
infofarmer 13y ago
They checked your background and found your nickname on HN.
ctide 13y ago
That's why I recommended including how much money the company has raised. Companies with lots of money also have a lot of employees, hence skewing 'market rate' up to something significantly higher than you'll get from any < 10m raised company. It's like (obviously not as extreme, but I'm using hyperbole) comparing salaries for similar roles at non-profits vs. investment banks just because they're both in the same city.
- kanzure 13y ago
  > It's like comparing salaries for similar roles ... just because they're both in the same city. Yes, and there's nothing wrong with that.
  - ctide 13y ago
    Apples and oranges are in the same aisle in the grocery store. Good enough reason for you, I suppose?
Glyptodon 13y ago
"Oh developers are in such high demand! Everyone come to the Bay!" "Whatever. Just tell me your offer." "Really? No wonder you think there's a talent shortage." Hacker News is somewhat prey to its own delusions.
Matt_Mickiewicz 13y ago
Weird. We have couple hundred seed stage companies on DevAuc, including many YC Alumns. Typical offers are $90-$110K. I've never seen a $60K offer. Series A and B companies are typically able to start paying more "market" rates of $120K-$160K. We're going to run the numbers on this at some point and put out a proper report.
- jmspring 13y ago
  For a number of years, a lot of series A companies would top base salary out around 125k - this was based on a few years ago. Early stage are always a more complicated equation, that said, the equity/salary trade off isn't the same as it once was.
- jmspring 13y ago
  For a number of years, a lot of series A companies would top base salary out around 125k - this was based on a few years ago. Early stage are always a more complicated equation, that said, the equity/salary trade off isn't the same as it once was.

acchow 13y ago

They don't have money to throw around. Probably would have given you meaningful (lifechanging?) equity tho.

sbierwagen 13y ago
"Lifechanging" only if you win the startup lottery. 95% of YC startups fail.
- reeses 13y ago
  The statistics, it burnses, it burnses. Can we leave any percentages and probability out of this conversation? Think of the children!
- beambot 13y ago
  37 / 511 (7.25%) are worth greater than $40MM, and that doesn't take into account that many are too young to be decided yet [1]. Not sure if that confirms or refutes your comment (were you being cheeky?), but at least it's a source rather than a statistic without evidence. [1] http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/26/paul-graham-37-y-combinator-companies-have-valuations-of-or-sold-for-at-least-40m/ http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/26/paul-graham-37-y-combinator...
  - codeonfire 13y ago
    0.05% of $40MM is $20k, which is not "Lifechanging".
    - mattj 13y ago
      If they can't afford to pay a market salary, you should be getting at least 0.5% (and probably more like 1%). Still not life changing at 40mm with no dilution (200-400k), but a little more meaningful.
      - pdog 13y ago
        How many startup employees (not founders or investors) are getting even 0.5-1% effective equity?
        jon_dahl 13y ago
        If you're a non-junior engineer, and one of the first ~10 employees, this is fairly common. At least at the point of issuance; 2-3 VC rounds reduces the percentage (but increases the value, at least in theory).
      - nirvdrum 13y ago
        Dilution isn't the only thing to worry about. This post has a pretty good treatment: http://rob.by/2013/negotiating-your-startup-job-offer/ http://rob.by/2013/negotiating-your-startup-job-offer/ It's pretty unlikely you'll see anywhere near those numbers.
      - greghinch 13y ago
        Most of the YC companies seem to be favoring "large seed" rounds, which are at levels that might have, in recent years, been more appropriate for A rounds. The $6mil seeds, and such. That probably leaves them in a position of: a) not a lot of equity left to spread around b) it's a seed round, so there's little to no revenue coming in yet, which means they want to hold onto as much of that cash as possible. Depending on how the deal was done with investors, they may have such a small options pool that you're never going to get the 1% you want, and yet they also are not going to pay the $100k+ you are worth. What they are offering you is the "prestige" of working for a YC company, and it's your call if you think that has future value for you or not. Now if you get hired by one of these and they make it for a few more years, and you stick around, your salary will likely go up significantly and additional options be granted (though you'll probably need to make an effort to ask), but I wouldn't count on getting life changing equity out of any startup if you're joining after they've raised 7 figures or more.
  - CoachRufus87 13y ago
    Being worth something and seeing cold hard cash are 2 different things.
    - robryan 13y ago
      Yeah, only a handful of >$40MM exits. Really we won't have a more complete picture for another 5 years or more.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- yekko 13y ago
  99.9%+ won't even make you a millionaire. Be a founder or VC instead.

infofarmer 13y ago

They checked your background and found your nickname on HN.

ctide 13y ago

That's why I recommended including how much money the company has raised. Companies with lots of money also have a lot of employees, hence skewing 'market rate' up to something significantly higher than you'll get from any < 10m raised company. It's like (obviously not as extreme, but I'm using hyperbole) comparing salaries for similar roles at non-profits vs. investment banks just because they're both in the same city.

kanzure 13y ago
> It's like comparing salaries for similar roles ... just because they're both in the same city. Yes, and there's nothing wrong with that.
- ctide 13y ago
  Apples and oranges are in the same aisle in the grocery store. Good enough reason for you, I suppose?

Glyptodon 13y ago

"Oh developers are in such high demand! Everyone come to the Bay!" "Whatever. Just tell me your offer." "Really? No wonder you think there's a talent shortage." Hacker News is somewhat prey to its own delusions.

Matt_Mickiewicz 13y ago

Weird. We have couple hundred seed stage companies on DevAuc, including many YC Alumns. Typical offers are $90-$110K. I've never seen a $60K offer. Series A and B companies are typically able to start paying more "market" rates of $120K-$160K. We're going to run the numbers on this at some point and put out a proper report.

jmspring 13y ago
For a number of years, a lot of series A companies would top base salary out around 125k - this was based on a few years ago. Early stage are always a more complicated equation, that said, the equity/salary trade off isn't the same as it once was.
jmspring 13y ago
For a number of years, a lot of series A companies would top base salary out around 125k - this was based on a few years ago. Early stage are always a more complicated equation, that said, the equity/salary trade off isn't the same as it once was.