5 ms·

Amen. That original article wasn't even worth a rebuttal. I started in QA (on EverQuest) when I was 20. No degree, just a couple level 60 characters. After 2 y

Amen. That original article wasn't even worth a rebuttal. I started in QA (on EverQuest) when I was 20. No degree, just a couple level 60 characters. After 2 years of overtime, hard work, and taking programming classes at the community college I got a junior programmer job in another department. 12 years later I'm a cofounder and CTO at my own indie game startup. The system works!

hkmurakami 13y ago
This evokes images of an apprenticeship program from the trades of yesteryear, which while having its own share of flaws, certainly worked for many.
obviouslygreen 13y ago
"The system works" does not follow from your anecdote. "It did not suck horribly for me" would be a more apt conclusion; personally I don't believe it's intended to do what it did for you. Gaming QA is intended to QA games. Corporations are intended to serve their purpose and use their assets effectively, not to groom them to start their own companies. Don't get me wrong -- good work! I'm glad good things came out of it for you. I just don't think this generalization is valid.
- socialist_coder 13y ago
  I don't disagree with your first statement. QA is not supposed to be a training ground, but it does kind of turn in to one since that is the only entry level job you can get in the gaming industry without a degree / experience. Most of QA is trying to get promoted up to an artist, designer, programmer, or producer. I've worked at multiple game companies now and every one was like that. Plus, you can make your argument for any job/company where you are learning new skills and getting better- which should be every job for a professional. Why would any company promote that? And yet, any company worth working at does.
deleted 13y ago
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205guy 13y ago
While socialist_coder does have a valid anecdote that counters the disgruntled QA guy's anecdote, it is quite incomprehensible to see someone named socialist_coder oppose someone advocating for organized labor. My take on the whole affair: it is a rough-and-tumble branch of the tech industry, where degrees and methodology don't count for as much, and that some people can't stomach for too long even if they think they want to. Given the persistence of abusive practices by employers, employees would probably benefit from some sort of labor organization, but it just doesn't seem like that will happen in the US. As a talented and recognized musician, I didn't understand why the disgruntled QA guy tried to work his way up that way. I can only assume he tried to enter the industry as a musician and was rebuffed.

hkmurakami 13y ago

This evokes images of an apprenticeship program from the trades of yesteryear, which while having its own share of flaws, certainly worked for many.

obviouslygreen 13y ago

"The system works" does not follow from your anecdote. "It did not suck horribly for me" would be a more apt conclusion; personally I don't believe it's intended to do what it did for you. Gaming QA is intended to QA games. Corporations are intended to serve their purpose and use their assets effectively, not to groom them to start their own companies. Don't get me wrong -- good work! I'm glad good things came out of it for you. I just don't think this generalization is valid.

socialist_coder 13y ago
I don't disagree with your first statement. QA is not supposed to be a training ground, but it does kind of turn in to one since that is the only entry level job you can get in the gaming industry without a degree / experience. Most of QA is trying to get promoted up to an artist, designer, programmer, or producer. I've worked at multiple game companies now and every one was like that. Plus, you can make your argument for any job/company where you are learning new skills and getting better- which should be every job for a professional. Why would any company promote that? And yet, any company worth working at does.

deleted 13y ago

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205guy 13y ago

While socialist_coder does have a valid anecdote that counters the disgruntled QA guy's anecdote, it is quite incomprehensible to see someone named socialist_coder oppose someone advocating for organized labor. My take on the whole affair: it is a rough-and-tumble branch of the tech industry, where degrees and methodology don't count for as much, and that some people can't stomach for too long even if they think they want to. Given the persistence of abusive practices by employers, employees would probably benefit from some sort of labor organization, but it just doesn't seem like that will happen in the US. As a talented and recognized musician, I didn't understand why the disgruntled QA guy tried to work his way up that way. I can only assume he tried to enter the industry as a musician and was rebuffed.