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Too depressing to read in its entirety. One straightforward way of evaluating whether there might be anything wrong with practices in American prisons is to com
by Myrmornis 13y ago
Too depressing to read in its entirety. One straightforward way of evaluating whether there might be anything wrong with practices in American prisons is to compare with other countries -- do other nations with stable democracies use solitary confinement in a similar way?
- peteretep 13y ago> do other nations with stable democracies use solitary confinement in a similar way Other countries with stable democracies have universal health care, don't incarcerate almost 1% of the population, have never landed people on the moon, don't spend 5% of their GDP on the military, aren't the home of Apple, Microsoft, and IBM, and so on. America has always been (and will probably always be) an edge case.
- radicalcut 13y ago> and will probably always be I seriously doubt that. What goes around comes around.
- Myrmornis 13y agoActually, all nations think they are special. It's not an excuse for backwardness.
- jacquesm 13y ago> Actually, all nations think they are special. Actually, they don't. And that's another way in which America is different than most other nations.
- honzzz 13y agoOT: I remember being in the USA after those 9/11 terrorist attacks an they aired those "proud to be an American" commercials all the time... like they assume it's a good thing to be proud that you are a national of a certain nation. And maybe it is a good thing - I don't know. It just seemed strange to me. And all those American flags in front of regular family homes... do you still have those? You don't see that in Europe. Please do not take this the wrong way. I kind of admire your patriotism... although I think it might prevent you from seeing (and fixing) bad things.
- Domenic_S 13y agoIf it weren't for some sense of pride, things would never be fixed. Think about your technology work -- you do a good job because you take some pride in it. American patriotism is the most public, but every country's citizens take some measure of pride in their country. We're the most public about everything (the home of myspace/facebook/twitter/instagram/the internet generally) so it makes sense to me that we're really public about patriotism.
- vacri 13y agoAmerican patriotism related to the wake of the 9/11 attacks seem to have broken more things than it fixed, both internally (eg TSA) and externally (eg the pride-wounded initiation of the Iraq war). It doesn't seem to have actually fixed much.
- eropple 13y ago> If it weren't for some sense of pride, things would never be fixed. I tend to think that those with the most outward expressions of that pride don't want things fixed.
- nraynaud 13y agoYou know, being an edge case does not prevent from respecting the rules, and human rights rules are made so that "special cases" don't end up like the nazi Germany special case. (yeah, sorry, that's historically when and why it was decided to write the Universal Declaration of Human Rights)
- honzzz 13y agoI am not sure I fully understand what you mean but it seems to imply that US is an outlier in both 'good' and 'bad'. What seems to be problematic to me is that the bad ones seem to be on different abstraction level than the good ones. Other countries might not have Apple, Microsoft, and IBM but they certainly have huge globally successful companies. They never landed on the moon but they have explored space and achieved important things related to science or technology. Which could negate the idea of being an outlier in bad things is somehow related to being an outlier in good things... if anyone would be making such claim.
- vacri 13y agoLanding on the moon was certainly quite an achievement, but it should also be noted that it is kind of pointless - the reason why no-one else has bothered is the same as the reason why the US doesn't return there. Similarly, the argument that "we have high highs, therefore it's reasonable to have low lows" really doesn't do the complexity of human nature any justice, instead treating it as a simple see-saw.
- kybernetyk 13y agoA different view: In Germany you are usually locked up for 23 hours/day in your (1 or 2 man) cell when you're serving a prison sentence. There are some exceptions to this like being able to visit another prisoner for one hour every day or use the kitchen for one hour every few days, etc. (Or if you are really lucky you can get a job inside the prison.) I'd say being imprisoned is inhumane in every country on this planet. I hope future generations come up with alternatives to this medieval practice.
- cmdkeen 13y agoIronically medieval prisons were only for those awaiting trial - prison wasn't seen as a punishment only an administrative means of keeping hold of people. Given what they'd do if you were found guilty...
- lovskogen 13y agoI think imprisonment here in Norway actually is quite humane.
- danielsamuels 13y agoFrom what I've read[1], I would agree with you. [1] http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-pris...
- peterjancelis 13y agoPrisoners in Monaco (there are only a few and mostly white collar criminals) receive a gourmet diet, medical checkups and daily exercise routine. It's a pet project of the local prison director to make it the best in the world - there is a documentary about it but can't find it back right now.
- Confusion 13y agoI don't know where you get your information from, but the source is unreliable and you're now spreading disinformation.