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I want to like Firefox, I really do, but the experience on OS X is awful. It doesn't fit well with the aesthetic of a native Mac app, and certainty doesn't' fun

I want to like Firefox, I really do, but the experience on OS X is awful. It doesn't fit well with the aesthetic of a native Mac app, and certainty doesn't' function like one. Multi-gestures in Safari are so much smoother. About a month or so back when the Firefox team was soliciting feedback for something here on HN, one of the designers or developers at Mozilla had screenshots of a version of Firefox that looked really good. I went to go download the latest version and realized that the screenshots most have just been Photoshop comps or something.

TwoBit 13y ago
I'm not a Mac fanatic, which might be why I prefer FireFox on Mac to other browsers.
notatoad 13y ago
did it look like this [1]? that's the UX nightly available at [2]. it's a new theme they're working on, but it's got a few versions to go before it makes it into stable. i'm loving it, but they're removing/changing a couple of customization features so people are freaking out. we'll see what the final product ends up looking like. [1] http://i.imgur.com/Gfns2MS.png http://i.imgur.com/Gfns2MS.png [2] http://people.mozilla.org/~jwein/ux-nightly/ http://people.mozilla.org/~jwein/ux-nightly/
- duaneb 13y ago
  It's not just the user interface, it's that (for example) they don't QUITE completely ignore mac (emacs) keybindings (e.g. ctrl-a should move to beginning of PARAGRAPH, but either moves to the beginning of the visual line in the textbox, or highlights whatever you've searched for if you're that unlikely). This is far worse behavior, and it's been like this for years!
- __david__ 13y ago
  Oh, interesting. That's what Thunderbird looks like now. I was just noticing the other day that Thunderbird got really nice looking suddenly...
- markdown 13y ago
  That rounded tab just looks off to me. Everything else looks great though.
- UIZealot 13y ago
  That's hardly a good Mac UI. On the Mac: 1. Tab close buttons should be on the left, not the right. 2. They got the tab title right, in the center, but site icon should be right next to the site title, not on the far left.
  - Argorak 13y ago
    Be aware that the UX alpha is highly unstable. Many things are not finished and from time to time just appear and vanish out of thin air. So it can only be used as a direction indicator and as such, I think it looks good.
    - UIZealot 13y ago
      Actually this tab style dates back to at least Firefox 3. I didn't check further back. It looks like XUL can't do it the right way, and they don't care enough to do it right.
      - Argorak 13y ago
        It seems like sometimes the play with it and go back to the old one (which I actually like...). BTW, the UX alpha is back to the old style.
  - eightyone 13y ago
    I think the reason they have the icon/close button switched is because when you pin a tab it goes on the left side of the screen.
- eightyone 13y ago
  Yes! Thank you. While I don't think it looks or feels perfect yet, it at least shows that FF is still in the game working on things like this.
MatthewPhillips 13y ago
Couldn't disagree more. I think Firefox looks and feels great.
denzil_correa 13y ago
I would have to agree with most of what is said here. I prefer Chrome (or even Safari) over Firefox on OS X. Chrome is faster (I need to work on a slow Internet connection many times) while Safari being the bundled browser has few features like Reader etc. which I don't want to use. I still have FF installed for back up purposes but I don't use it unless something is broken on Chrome or Safari (which doesn't happen a lot). I find it extremely surprising that some sites (ex:Facebook) are (or were a few months back) displayed differently on Windows FF vs OS X FF.
pilif 13y ago
The one thing that drives me mad about Firefox on the Mac is it's Home/End behavior. Ever since migrating to the Mac, I have remapped the keys to work like on windows and Linux (operating on the current line instead of the current document). You can do that using a custom key binding in ~/Library/KeyBindings. Firefox ignores this and still insists on home/end working on the full document. But even worse: in the new Gmail compose window, not even Command-Left/Right works (it does in other Textareas - no idea what Google did here). Now this might totally be a case of http://xkcd.com/1172/ http://xkcd.com/1172/ but by the life of me, I cannot work without a way to move the cursor to the beginning of a line - especially when the keys that I usually use are so destructive (scrolling all the way to the top, making me lose my position). This is the only reason why using Firefox is out of the question. In the past, I patched some JS file inside the bundle, but now that Firefox updates so often and it's a signed binary, I can't really do that any more.
- vvhn 13y ago
  >The one thing that drives me mad about Firefox on the Mac is it's Home/End behavior. Ever since migrating to the Mac, I have remapped the keys to work like on windows and Linux (operating on the current line instead of the current document) That's because Home and End keys on the Mac, like in the original UNIX, mean the beginning and the end of the document not the beginning and end of a line which is a Windows thing (and since Windows is the overwhelming presence, is commonly misunderstood as the keys themselves meaning that) and since most early Linux desktop environment's aimed to duplicate Windows, is also the default Linux behaviour now. You will find this behaviour in all Apple provided applications as well. > I cannot work without a way to move the cursor to the beginning of a line Anything that doesn't override Cocoa's default key bindings will be able to use the emacs key bindings as well (Cntrl-A for the beginning and Cntrl-E for the end of the line) >in the new Gmail compose window, not even Command-Left/Right works cntrl-a and cntrl-e work.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago
    >That's because Home and End keys on the Mac, like in the original UNIX, mean the beginning and the end of the document not the beginning and end of a line which is a Windows thing Is it? I'm used to them going to the beginning and the end of lines on Linux.
ancarda 13y ago
Since Camino is based off Firefox, is it possible to backport some of the OS X specific code? The primary reason why I'm still using Safari rather than Firefox is because it lacks Keychain support.
- stuartmorgan 13y ago
  There have been two attempts that I know of (and probably more) to add keychain support to Firefox, once leveraging Camino’s code. The problem wasn't technical, but resistance from Firefox leadership to the idea. IIRC they were concerned about breaking the ability to move a profile folder from one OS to another.
msujaws 13y ago
We're actually very far along in implementing what you saw in those screenshots. You can download a Nightly build of it (that auto-updates) at http://people.mozilla.org/~jwein/ux-nightly/ http://people.mozilla.org/~jwein/ux-nightly/

TwoBit 13y ago

I'm not a Mac fanatic, which might be why I prefer FireFox on Mac to other browsers.

notatoad 13y ago

did it look like this [1]? that's the UX nightly available at [2]. it's a new theme they're working on, but it's got a few versions to go before it makes it into stable. i'm loving it, but they're removing/changing a couple of customization features so people are freaking out. we'll see what the final product ends up looking like. [1] http://i.imgur.com/Gfns2MS.png http://i.imgur.com/Gfns2MS.png [2] http://people.mozilla.org/~jwein/ux-nightly/ http://people.mozilla.org/~jwein/ux-nightly/

duaneb 13y ago
It's not just the user interface, it's that (for example) they don't QUITE completely ignore mac (emacs) keybindings (e.g. ctrl-a should move to beginning of PARAGRAPH, but either moves to the beginning of the visual line in the textbox, or highlights whatever you've searched for if you're that unlikely). This is far worse behavior, and it's been like this for years!
__david__ 13y ago
Oh, interesting. That's what Thunderbird looks like now. I was just noticing the other day that Thunderbird got really nice looking suddenly...
markdown 13y ago
That rounded tab just looks off to me. Everything else looks great though.
UIZealot 13y ago
That's hardly a good Mac UI. On the Mac: 1. Tab close buttons should be on the left, not the right. 2. They got the tab title right, in the center, but site icon should be right next to the site title, not on the far left.
- Argorak 13y ago
  Be aware that the UX alpha is highly unstable. Many things are not finished and from time to time just appear and vanish out of thin air. So it can only be used as a direction indicator and as such, I think it looks good.
  - UIZealot 13y ago
    Actually this tab style dates back to at least Firefox 3. I didn't check further back. It looks like XUL can't do it the right way, and they don't care enough to do it right.
    - Argorak 13y ago
      It seems like sometimes the play with it and go back to the old one (which I actually like...). BTW, the UX alpha is back to the old style.
- eightyone 13y ago
  I think the reason they have the icon/close button switched is because when you pin a tab it goes on the left side of the screen.
eightyone 13y ago
Yes! Thank you. While I don't think it looks or feels perfect yet, it at least shows that FF is still in the game working on things like this.

MatthewPhillips 13y ago

Couldn't disagree more. I think Firefox looks and feels great.

denzil_correa 13y ago

I would have to agree with most of what is said here. I prefer Chrome (or even Safari) over Firefox on OS X. Chrome is faster (I need to work on a slow Internet connection many times) while Safari being the bundled browser has few features like Reader etc. which I don't want to use. I still have FF installed for back up purposes but I don't use it unless something is broken on Chrome or Safari (which doesn't happen a lot). I find it extremely surprising that some sites (ex:Facebook) are (or were a few months back) displayed differently on Windows FF vs OS X FF.

pilif 13y ago

The one thing that drives me mad about Firefox on the Mac is it's Home/End behavior. Ever since migrating to the Mac, I have remapped the keys to work like on windows and Linux (operating on the current line instead of the current document). You can do that using a custom key binding in ~/Library/KeyBindings. Firefox ignores this and still insists on home/end working on the full document. But even worse: in the new Gmail compose window, not even Command-Left/Right works (it does in other Textareas - no idea what Google did here). Now this might totally be a case of http://xkcd.com/1172/ http://xkcd.com/1172/ but by the life of me, I cannot work without a way to move the cursor to the beginning of a line - especially when the keys that I usually use are so destructive (scrolling all the way to the top, making me lose my position). This is the only reason why using Firefox is out of the question. In the past, I patched some JS file inside the bundle, but now that Firefox updates so often and it's a signed binary, I can't really do that any more.

vvhn 13y ago
>The one thing that drives me mad about Firefox on the Mac is it's Home/End behavior. Ever since migrating to the Mac, I have remapped the keys to work like on windows and Linux (operating on the current line instead of the current document) That's because Home and End keys on the Mac, like in the original UNIX, mean the beginning and the end of the document not the beginning and end of a line which is a Windows thing (and since Windows is the overwhelming presence, is commonly misunderstood as the keys themselves meaning that) and since most early Linux desktop environment's aimed to duplicate Windows, is also the default Linux behaviour now. You will find this behaviour in all Apple provided applications as well. > I cannot work without a way to move the cursor to the beginning of a line Anything that doesn't override Cocoa's default key bindings will be able to use the emacs key bindings as well (Cntrl-A for the beginning and Cntrl-E for the end of the line) >in the new Gmail compose window, not even Command-Left/Right works cntrl-a and cntrl-e work.
- TazeTSchnitzel 13y ago
  >That's because Home and End keys on the Mac, like in the original UNIX, mean the beginning and the end of the document not the beginning and end of a line which is a Windows thing Is it? I'm used to them going to the beginning and the end of lines on Linux.

ancarda 13y ago

Since Camino is based off Firefox, is it possible to backport some of the OS X specific code? The primary reason why I'm still using Safari rather than Firefox is because it lacks Keychain support.

stuartmorgan 13y ago
There have been two attempts that I know of (and probably more) to add keychain support to Firefox, once leveraging Camino’s code. The problem wasn't technical, but resistance from Firefox leadership to the idea. IIRC they were concerned about breaking the ability to move a profile folder from one OS to another.

msujaws 13y ago

We're actually very far along in implementing what you saw in those screenshots. You can download a Nightly build of it (that auto-updates) at http://people.mozilla.org/~jwein/ux-nightly/ http://people.mozilla.org/~jwein/ux-nightly/