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What's important to remember is the dynamic nature of these improvements. I wouldn't do any development around these short of the standard gas station models. A

What's important to remember is the dynamic nature of these improvements. I wouldn't do any development around these short of the standard gas station models. As time progresses I suspect these cars will get greater range and shorter charging times.

ajross 13y ago
And existing gas stations will just grow chargers. These things don't really require a whole lot of infrastructure as I understand it. A standard industrial electrical drop is probably already present (my math says a single charging station will draw 600A). Just drop the station next to an existing parking place and plug it in. The cost is borne mostly by Tesla in producing them as I see it.
- jared314 13y ago
  I think existing gas stations rely on customers only spending 5-10 mins to keep quantity high, to compensate for lower fuel pricing. Perhaps, in another 5 years, an advance in battery technology will push it down that low, but otherwise I would want to spend the 20 mins someplace with better service, like a grocery store, movie theater, or restaurant.
  - wikwocket 13y ago
    The model to follow here is oil change stations, like Jiffy Lube. Your car is tied up for 15-30 minutes, so they provide you with free coffee, donuts, TV with cable, wifi, some magazines, and a few nice chairs. All of the above is probably cheaper to add to a gas station than the cost of building a new hospitality facility.
    - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
      Those places are sufficient for the "5k miles or 3 months" interval. I can endure that a couple times a year. If I was doing this regularly (or with the whole family), I would want more than a free coffee and a magazine. And most existing gas stations that do already have the room to add that already use that space for overpriced chips and candy. I don't see many gas stations I use giving up inventory space to make a lounge. To me, it would make more sense for places that are already equipped to have people stay for 20-30 minutes to drop a couple charging stations out front next to the disabled parking spaces.
roc 13y ago
If Tesla-class ranges are accepted, I'd think further battery density advances would translate into fewer batteries/lower-weight, rather than maintaining weight and adding additional range. Particularly if charging speed is also advancing, there wouldn't seem to be any call to increase the range beyond what's acceptable. (And using fewer cells would further-advance the charging-time-per-unit-range numbers) Better to optimize the things people don't like (total charge time) or the things you don't like (high cost of batteries), than to further improve a thing people find acceptable (range). That said, I wouldn't want to build any business plan that assumes the existence of dedicated charging stations simply because I don't see how they survive long-term. Dedicated gas stations exist because fuel storage is a large-enough consideration and pumping a fast-enough endeavor that it just makes sense to make fuel pumps a destination in-and-of-themselves. But if charging stations are a bit of additional electrical work to wire up a handful of spots and charging is going to take a bit of time, why wouldn't every already-viable roadside diner, attraction or hotel just add a few spots (and then a few more, and then a few more...)? And if you're getting a bit of charge from every other stop you make on a road trip (for snacks, restrooms, meals, attractions, overnights, etc) who needs a 30 minute purgatory at a dedicated charging station? Even if you needed a charge, choosing a destination that happened to have a charger would seem a more optimal move than choosing a charging station and then hoping it has a destination attached.

ajross 13y ago

And existing gas stations will just grow chargers. These things don't really require a whole lot of infrastructure as I understand it. A standard industrial electrical drop is probably already present (my math says a single charging station will draw 600A). Just drop the station next to an existing parking place and plug it in. The cost is borne mostly by Tesla in producing them as I see it.

jared314 13y ago
I think existing gas stations rely on customers only spending 5-10 mins to keep quantity high, to compensate for lower fuel pricing. Perhaps, in another 5 years, an advance in battery technology will push it down that low, but otherwise I would want to spend the 20 mins someplace with better service, like a grocery store, movie theater, or restaurant.
- wikwocket 13y ago
  The model to follow here is oil change stations, like Jiffy Lube. Your car is tied up for 15-30 minutes, so they provide you with free coffee, donuts, TV with cable, wifi, some magazines, and a few nice chairs. All of the above is probably cheaper to add to a gas station than the cost of building a new hospitality facility.
  - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
    Those places are sufficient for the "5k miles or 3 months" interval. I can endure that a couple times a year. If I was doing this regularly (or with the whole family), I would want more than a free coffee and a magazine. And most existing gas stations that do already have the room to add that already use that space for overpriced chips and candy. I don't see many gas stations I use giving up inventory space to make a lounge. To me, it would make more sense for places that are already equipped to have people stay for 20-30 minutes to drop a couple charging stations out front next to the disabled parking spaces.

roc 13y ago

If Tesla-class ranges are accepted, I'd think further battery density advances would translate into fewer batteries/lower-weight, rather than maintaining weight and adding additional range. Particularly if charging speed is also advancing, there wouldn't seem to be any call to increase the range beyond what's acceptable. (And using fewer cells would further-advance the charging-time-per-unit-range numbers) Better to optimize the things people don't like (total charge time) or the things you don't like (high cost of batteries), than to further improve a thing people find acceptable (range). That said, I wouldn't want to build any business plan that assumes the existence of dedicated charging stations simply because I don't see how they survive long-term. Dedicated gas stations exist because fuel storage is a large-enough consideration and pumping a fast-enough endeavor that it just makes sense to make fuel pumps a destination in-and-of-themselves. But if charging stations are a bit of additional electrical work to wire up a handful of spots and charging is going to take a bit of time, why wouldn't every already-viable roadside diner, attraction or hotel just add a few spots (and then a few more, and then a few more...)? And if you're getting a bit of charge from every other stop you make on a road trip (for snacks, restrooms, meals, attractions, overnights, etc) who needs a 30 minute purgatory at a dedicated charging station? Even if you needed a charge, choosing a destination that happened to have a charger would seem a more optimal move than choosing a charging station and then hoping it has a destination attached.