4 ms·

Valve seems to generally treat its customers decently and to describe that as some sort of sugar pill with which they cram a supposedly 'heavily DRM encumbered'

by glurgh 13y ago

Valve seems to generally treat its customers decently and to describe that as some sort of sugar pill with which they cram a supposedly 'heavily DRM encumbered' Steam client down your throat is a little overwrought. I've been on Steam since the release of Half-Life 2 in late 2004. I own, according to the client, 118 titles. I've never had a Steam-related DRM problem. The client itself has occasionally had quality problems, so have some (mostly non-Valve) games but I've not once felt the 'negative value' of Steam's DRM itself. It's getting close to a decade but I still have essentially unencumbered access to my copy of HL2 - I'd have surely lost the physical media by now. In 2007, I bought Portal which came in a bundle that included HL2 - I got an extra free HL2 license to give away. In 2010 I got a free copy of the HL2 OS X port and, were I the sort of person who enjoys the quixotic challenge of gaming on Linux, I could have grabbed my free Linux port just a few weeks ago. And that's just one game. If that's poison, don't take me to the hospital, please.

Guvante 13y ago
None of those are DRM, all of those are unlimited free downloads (which pretty much every digital distributor provides). The DRM is the fact that if you don't have an internet connection you have to hope that Steam successfully launches into offline mode or not have access to your games. Similarly if Valve decides to ban your account, all 118 games become permanently unavailable to you.
- glurgh 13y ago
  A number of my Steam games are DRM-free. I didn't say these features were DRM but that they are things Steam provides while having DRM so unobtrusive I've not noticed it in 9 years. The OPs contention was Valve's DRM is some heavy burden that they basically bribe you to accept. I'm sure it's gone wrong for some people at some point but I think compared to the rate of just regular old game-crippling bugs, it's negligible. And yes, if Valve decides to ban my account, the DRM'ed games become unavailable. Or I have to waste my time looking for cracks. But again, what is the rate of that? If the dog shreds my big folder of physical game media, it's also all lost.
  - Guvante 13y ago
    > DRM is some heavy burden that they basically bribe you to accept. I'm sure it's gone wrong for some people at some point These two sentences reinforce what the OP is saying, you aren't arguing facts, you are arguing impact. OP is saying we are underestimating the impact DRM should have on our decision, to which you responded "it doesn't bother me". That fact isn't important to this discussion. I also use Steam, enjoy it, think they are a great company, and won't be stopping anytime soon. However it is certainly true that unlike GOG their platform is based around DRM. > If the dog shreds my big folder of physical game media What measures can you take to prevent Valve from banning you? For instance some people have lost their Steam accounts because they used Paypal and there was a disagreement between the two over a charge. I control the physical media, I can't control Valve's authentication system.
    - glurgh 13y ago
      It's a little difficult to believe you're actually trying to have a conversation about this when you selectively misquote what I said - you chopped off the bit where I said I was quoting/paraphrasing the OP and then claim my own words are reinforcing what the OP is saying. Well, of course they are, I was quoting the OP! And I think for the most part, I am relying on facts - it's the OP that appeals to emotions - 'poison', 'heavily encumbered', suggesting Valve's motivations for quality service is to trick their customers into accepting DRM. Based on, well, nothing but opinion. My experience may be anecdotal but it is factual.
- nitrogen 13y ago
  Similarly if Valve decides to ban your account, all 118 games become permanently unavailable to you. Has this happened often?
  - speeder 13y ago
    Unfortunately yes. Valve has a antifraud rule.of banning anyone that chargeback them. And PayPal has the nasty habit of sometimes.during their suspected fraud investigations to initiate a chargeback of recent purchases on their own and then lock the account. There are on internet a couple of stories about this policy conflict between Valve and PayPal resulting in random people losing their Steam accounts.
    - jstelly 13y ago
      I don't think this is true. I believe that steam accounts were temporarily locked while disputes were resolved (although now only the disputed game would get locked, not the account); I don't believe steam accounts were permanently locked for a payment dispute.
MichaelGG 13y ago
I've bought $10, single-player, offline, RPGs, but when I tried to run them without an Internet connection, the game refused to work. Apparently there's some way to get around this, but it's totally unnecessary and part of their DRM. I like Steam because they act like they get gamers, they've released good games, and they tend to make things easy. Not for a second though am I under the illusion that the Steam way is better than what it'd be without the insistence of running the Steam client/DRM/online parts. Edit: In short, Steam shows that if you make DRM slick enough and appear to provide a value add, most people, even gamers, will just go along with it. Netflix is another example of a crippled product, but it's good enough for the convenience it brings.
- James_Duval 13y ago
  I've definitely bought games over Steam that work offline. In fact the only game I've had a significant problem with was Heroes of Might and Magic VI, and that was because of Ubisoft's DRM/uPlay platform and the vast quantities of bugs (even 2 years after release!). I think you have a good point though. It's the 'sugar', not some objection to DRM or always-online gaming, which keeps me using Steam. That and their support for indie developers, which is quite heartening for me.
makomk 13y ago
One of the few DRM-related problems I've had was with Steam - more specifically, with Portal 2, which used some kind of new improved version of Valve's DRM that was apparently incompatible with my anti-virus software. Naturally, the error messages were pretty much useless since informative errors would help crackers. I think Valve finally documented - but didn't fix - the issue several months later.

by glurgh 13y ago

Guvante 13y ago

None of those are DRM, all of those are unlimited free downloads (which pretty much every digital distributor provides). The DRM is the fact that if you don't have an internet connection you have to hope that Steam successfully launches into offline mode or not have access to your games. Similarly if Valve decides to ban your account, all 118 games become permanently unavailable to you.

glurgh 13y ago
A number of my Steam games are DRM-free. I didn't say these features were DRM but that they are things Steam provides while having DRM so unobtrusive I've not noticed it in 9 years. The OPs contention was Valve's DRM is some heavy burden that they basically bribe you to accept. I'm sure it's gone wrong for some people at some point but I think compared to the rate of just regular old game-crippling bugs, it's negligible. And yes, if Valve decides to ban my account, the DRM'ed games become unavailable. Or I have to waste my time looking for cracks. But again, what is the rate of that? If the dog shreds my big folder of physical game media, it's also all lost.
- Guvante 13y ago
  > DRM is some heavy burden that they basically bribe you to accept. I'm sure it's gone wrong for some people at some point These two sentences reinforce what the OP is saying, you aren't arguing facts, you are arguing impact. OP is saying we are underestimating the impact DRM should have on our decision, to which you responded "it doesn't bother me". That fact isn't important to this discussion. I also use Steam, enjoy it, think they are a great company, and won't be stopping anytime soon. However it is certainly true that unlike GOG their platform is based around DRM. > If the dog shreds my big folder of physical game media What measures can you take to prevent Valve from banning you? For instance some people have lost their Steam accounts because they used Paypal and there was a disagreement between the two over a charge. I control the physical media, I can't control Valve's authentication system.
  - glurgh 13y ago
    It's a little difficult to believe you're actually trying to have a conversation about this when you selectively misquote what I said - you chopped off the bit where I said I was quoting/paraphrasing the OP and then claim my own words are reinforcing what the OP is saying. Well, of course they are, I was quoting the OP! And I think for the most part, I am relying on facts - it's the OP that appeals to emotions - 'poison', 'heavily encumbered', suggesting Valve's motivations for quality service is to trick their customers into accepting DRM. Based on, well, nothing but opinion. My experience may be anecdotal but it is factual.
nitrogen 13y ago
Similarly if Valve decides to ban your account, all 118 games become permanently unavailable to you. Has this happened often?
- speeder 13y ago
  Unfortunately yes. Valve has a antifraud rule.of banning anyone that chargeback them. And PayPal has the nasty habit of sometimes.during their suspected fraud investigations to initiate a chargeback of recent purchases on their own and then lock the account. There are on internet a couple of stories about this policy conflict between Valve and PayPal resulting in random people losing their Steam accounts.
  - jstelly 13y ago
    I don't think this is true. I believe that steam accounts were temporarily locked while disputes were resolved (although now only the disputed game would get locked, not the account); I don't believe steam accounts were permanently locked for a payment dispute.

MichaelGG 13y ago

I've bought $10, single-player, offline, RPGs, but when I tried to run them without an Internet connection, the game refused to work. Apparently there's some way to get around this, but it's totally unnecessary and part of their DRM. I like Steam because they act like they get gamers, they've released good games, and they tend to make things easy. Not for a second though am I under the illusion that the Steam way is better than what it'd be without the insistence of running the Steam client/DRM/online parts. Edit: In short, Steam shows that if you make DRM slick enough and appear to provide a value add, most people, even gamers, will just go along with it. Netflix is another example of a crippled product, but it's good enough for the convenience it brings.

James_Duval 13y ago
I've definitely bought games over Steam that work offline. In fact the only game I've had a significant problem with was Heroes of Might and Magic VI, and that was because of Ubisoft's DRM/uPlay platform and the vast quantities of bugs (even 2 years after release!). I think you have a good point though. It's the 'sugar', not some objection to DRM or always-online gaming, which keeps me using Steam. That and their support for indie developers, which is quite heartening for me.

makomk 13y ago

One of the few DRM-related problems I've had was with Steam - more specifically, with Portal 2, which used some kind of new improved version of Valve's DRM that was apparently incompatible with my anti-virus software. Naturally, the error messages were pretty much useless since informative errors would help crackers. I think Valve finally documented - but didn't fix - the issue several months later.