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Tesla to triple supercharger network by the end of June
- jcdavis 13y agoAnother interesting bit at the end is the improved supercharging tech: "The new technology, which is in beta test mode now and will be fully rolled out to customers this summer, will allow Model S to be charged at 120 kW, replenishing three hours of driving in just over 20 minutes."
- nickpinkston 13y agoBTW: 120kW = 160 horsepower, so it's providing the power of your Honda Civic at full throttle for 20 minutes. That's nuts!
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- jack-r-abbit 13y agoI think this is brilliant on the part of Tesla. If they can get their charging network big enough & fast enough, new comers to the electric vehicle market would be wise to just use (license?) some of the tech needed to also charge their cars on these stations. Depending on how this is structured, Tesla could come out of this getting a piece of every electric vehicle that gets sold using their chargers. Unless the tech here is nothing special.
- joshAg 13y agoForget whether the tech is something special; it's the value of the real estate. If tesla builds out the supercharger network before anyone else, then they'll be able to license the tech for close to whatever they want, because the cost to build a competitive competing product will be so great, similar to how there's not a lot of new tier 1 internet providers.
- treeface 13y agoI'm not sure Tesla's first-mover advantage here is really going to last. Ultimately, I think it's likely that existing gas stations will slowly start converting to electric charging stations. If they can match Tesla's charging tech, it will even the playing field fairly quickly. Now if Tesla were to start selling their charging tech to existing gas stations, they might get an even bigger piece of the pie.
- jack-r-abbit 13y agoActually, I think putting them into gas stations would be a horrible idea. When was the last time you wanted to sit at a gas station for 20+ minutes to fill your car? They need to put them in places that you are willing to spend a little more time (and quite possibly money) while you charge. Grocery stores, restaurants. I guess they have mostly been putting them in rest stops which also makes some sense along those longer stretches between cities. But while 20 minutes is a great charge time... it sucks to have to sit for 20 minutes if you have nothing to do. It doesn't take me 20 minutes to stretch my legs and have a piss.
- treeface 13y agoI agree with you in principle about the necessity of needing something to do in the meantime, but a huge number of gas stations already have convenience stores attached to them. Perhaps not in bigger cities, but pretty much anywhere where space is not a concern.
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- jtbigwoo 13y agoCan someone smarter than me comment on the danger of having one of these next door to an apartment or office building? I assume that we're talking about lots of volts and amps here. Are these stations any more or less dangerous than a gas station?
- bloaf 13y agoI'm going to guess that they are orders of magnitude safer than gas stations. Firstly: no ground pollution. Gas stations are terrible for the land they are built on as they leak lots of organic compounds into the soil. Secondarily: no large reservoirs of combustible materials. I don't know the details of the supercharging stations, but I'd guess that they are at least as safe as the electric transformers we see on telephone poles everywhere.
- baddox 13y agoIt looks like their superchargers output 120 kW, which is 12 times the output of the "high voltage outlet" they cite. If you're just talking about the high power output of these chargers, then I doubt it's particularly dangerous.
- timroman 13y agoIt's not any more powerful than all of the other power lines that run under, above or near your building. I wouldn't be concerned about it.
- rayiner 13y agoFar, far, less dangerous than a gas station. Gas stations are environmental disasters. All sorts of chemicals and fumes emitted by those.
- cinquemb 13y agoI wonder if they are using all the data they collect from drivers to help them with planning how the distribute they stations?
- akgoel 13y agoIn my case, I don't think the data would help. I'd like to drive from Houston to Dallas in my Tesla, but won't until they install the superchargers along the way.
- cscheid 13y agoI hope not. Supercharger stations don't exist everywhere, so people don't drive their Teslas freely right now. Choosing where to put them based on where drivers drive their Teslas right now would make the supercharger network have good coverage of where Teslas are today, not where they want Teslas to reach in the future!
- joshdance 13y agoFrom what I have read they are planning the locations based on car purchases, logistics and marketing. States with more cars get more stations, they put stations where people want to be able to go, and where they want people to buy cars.
- stephenhuey 13y agoWithout spending a cent! I know there was speculation about using solar to power the superchargers eventually, but until then, are they hoping to forever give free fuel to Tesla owners with the hope of recouping supercharger energy costs by selling access to other brands of cars? Any idea how much it will cost Tesla on every free Tesla fill-up?
- samolang 13y agoI was under the impression that the superchargers already had solar power. Tesla partnered with Solar City (another Musk company) to accomplish this. EDIT: Looks like they're not all solar at this point. Last question in the FAQ at the very bottom: http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger
- stephenhuey 13y agoVery cool--the last I remember reading was that they were going to see about using his Solar City canopies. Anyone know what the risks are of the solar canopies not keeping up with demand?
- pyoung 13y agoI imagine that they would also have a connection to the grid, so that in the case that the solar capacity is insufficient to charge the cars, they could just switch over. Also, with net metering becoming more wide spread, they could sell back any excess electricity produced from their solar installation back to the grid, which could possibly offset some of the costs of purchasing electricity during periods of high demand.
- NickM 13y agoTypical US electricity rates are around $0.10/kWh, and a baseline Model S having a 60kWh battery, so if I totally guess at a charging efficiency of 50% then a full charge should cost somewhere in the vicinity of $12. On the 60kWh model, it costs $2000 to enable the supercharger hardware, so I can't imagine they'd lose too much money off these. Keep in mind that these aren't really intended for frequent use: they generally have been placing them on highways in between large cities, with the intent to enable the occasional long-distance road trip that would otherwise be outside the car's battery range. Even if Tesla loses a bit of money per car on average, it's probably worth it just for the value it adds to the cars in peoples' minds.
- jtbigwoo 13y agoThere's more than a bit of hype in this press release. Tripling the number of superchargers only gets them to 27 with almost half of the stations in California.
- protomyth 13y ago"Without spending a cent!" At some point states are going to start taxing for electricity going into electric vehicles to make up for lost revenue for their road and highway funds. I wonder if Tesla will pay for that or start charging? On another note, I do hope we don't end up with every manufacture building their own recharging network.
- NickM 13y agoMore likely I'd expect such a tax to be imposed in the form of additional taxes/fees on EV purchase/registration. Most EV charging is done at home, and it'd be logistically impractical to try to measure and tax only the electricity used to charge cars. Then again, I think it'll be a while until we see anything like this, since right now the trend is toward subsidizing EVs more than taxing them. Bear in mind also that the Supercharger network can be free because it's not intended for frequent use; the stations are typically placed at highway rest stops between cities, with the intent to allow occasional long road trips that would normally be outside the vehicle's battery range.
- akgoel 13y agoAs a Model S owner in Texas, I would think the easiest solution would be to record the mileage on the car at each annual state inspection and tax me on the net mileage driven between inspections.
- chris_mahan 13y agoIn California we don't have annual inspections. We have smog tests every 2 years.
- joshdance 13y agoI hope they don't invent a "smog test" for electric cars.
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- simba-hiiipower 13y ago> In addition to the expansion of the Tesla Supercharger network itself, Tesla is improving the technology behind the Tesla Supercharger to dramatically decrease the amount of time it takes to charge Model S, cutting charging time in half relative to early trials of the system. The new technology, which is in beta test mode now and will be fully rolled out to customers this summer, will allow Model S to be charged at 120 kW, replenishing three hours of driving in just over 20 minutes. i find this the most interesting part of the release. it sounds like existing model s' currently on the road will be able to take advantage of these upgraded superchargers.. i always assumed advances in charging tech would require upgrades to both the chargers and the cars themselves. anyone know how this is supposed to work? ..i know its wishful thinking, but this gives me hope that my lowly focus electric may someday see its charging capabilities upgraded as well.
- andrewtbham 13y agowhen musk unveiled the super chargers he said they were designed for 120kW but that they were testing them out at 90kW first.
- mrmaddog 13y agoIf I were in the hospitality industry, I'd be buying adjacent shops next to every Tesla charging station. Having a captive, wealthy audience for ~30 minutes seems like a ripe opportunity, whether it is restaurants, masseuses, or cafes. I'd also offer free valet+ services so patrons would stay in my establishment longer: I'll look over your car, start the charging process (in case there is a queue), and make sure to move it when it is done charging.
- jusben1369 13y agoWhat's important to remember is the dynamic nature of these improvements. I wouldn't do any development around these short of the standard gas station models. As time progresses I suspect these cars will get greater range and shorter charging times.
- ajross 13y agoAnd existing gas stations will just grow chargers. These things don't really require a whole lot of infrastructure as I understand it. A standard industrial electrical drop is probably already present (my math says a single charging station will draw 600A). Just drop the station next to an existing parking place and plug it in. The cost is borne mostly by Tesla in producing them as I see it.
- jared314 13y agoI think existing gas stations rely on customers only spending 5-10 mins to keep quantity high, to compensate for lower fuel pricing. Perhaps, in another 5 years, an advance in battery technology will push it down that low, but otherwise I would want to spend the 20 mins someplace with better service, like a grocery store, movie theater, or restaurant.
- wikwocket 13y agoThe model to follow here is oil change stations, like Jiffy Lube. Your car is tied up for 15-30 minutes, so they provide you with free coffee, donuts, TV with cable, wifi, some magazines, and a few nice chairs. All of the above is probably cheaper to add to a gas station than the cost of building a new hospitality facility.
- maeon3 13y agoDevil's advocate here: You can't charge up your car when your power goes out for a few days. Wheras gas stations have generators and gas rolls in on time, supercharger networks and home power drink from the same power grid. There's a word for all this: stranded and on-the-grid more than ever before. When power goes out, the city of electric cars also grinds to a halt. And heaven forbid all the people have their cars plugged in ready to charge when the grid comes back on. Does this mean I need to have a hefty 2 stroke generator with 8 gallons of gas ready to go to charge up the car when the power is out for a few days? You'd probably need a $1000 generator to provide the watts and amps.
- andrewtbham 13y agolack of gasoline is also a problem periodically. especially during disasters like hurricanes and massive tornados.
- fancyketchup 13y agoAdd multi-day electrical outages to the list. During the Northeast Blackout in 2003 you simply could not buy gas for several days in many places because gas pumps run on, you guessed it, electricity. Actually, I think owning an EV would make me less worried about multi-day blackouts. You can charge an EV from a gas or diesel generator or solar (or wind or...), but a gas car can only run on gas.
- dak1 13y agoWhat's stopping you from keeping your own generator? I suppose you'd be effectively limited to the max range of your vehicle from the generator, but if there's no power for 200-300 miles then there's probably bigger problems.
- andrewtbham 13y agoor better yet... lots of people are getting solar panels from elon's other company Solar City.
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- jusben1369 13y agoToday I read an article that said Honda is now offering the fully EV Fit for $259 per month as a lease over 36 months. That is unlimited mileage, includes car insurance and a home charger (!) Tesla's whole model was to eventually create a mass mileage car for $25,000 to $30,000. I'm now convinced that by the time they get there the market will be hyper competitive and they'll be squeezed out or marginalized. They may become the Apple of the car market - high margin, great brand, small marketshare %'s - which is nothing to sneeze at. But I'm worried now they've missed their opportunity to really make it as a stand alone brand. Perhaps they'll become a service supplier to the overall industry with charger stations and batteries etc.
- jack-r-abbit 13y agoJust like with gas cars, not everyone wants the same thing from an electric car. I wouldn't buy a gas Fit, what makes you think I'd buy an EV one?
- jusben1369 13y agoIt's not really much of a rebuttal to my point though is it?
- jack-r-abbit 13y agoI think it is. For any product you are going have a range of prices. $15k cars exist... but people still buy $150k cars. So just because Honda gets an EV Fit onto market doesn't mean Tesla missed any mark. If they become the Apple of the EV market, then there is no missed mark.
- hamxiaoz 13y agoI won't buy a gas fit but I'll get a EV fit because it's 4 door (bettern than spark ev) and has better looking than leaf.
- jack-r-abbit 13y agoright... so not everyone wants the same thing from a car.
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- jdoliner 13y agoIs there ever going to come a point where rather than hooking my Tesla up and charging it I just drive up to the station and swap out the battery for a new charged one? This seems to help mitigate one of the biggest problems which is how long charging takes and could, I imagine, be made to be a pretty speedy process if need be.
- andrewtbham 13y agothey have a patent for dual batteries where you keep your main one but get another battery for long trips. there is also an ideal area in the back of the frunk for putting another battery. however there is no indication they are moving to that strategy.
- chaz 13y agoThe problem is that it's 7 feet long, 4 feet wide, and weighs 1,000 lbs. It's also sealed into the chassis and makes up the floor of the car.
- fancyketchup 13y agoProbably not anytime soon. You can charge 240 miles of honest, comfortable, real-world, freeway-speed range while you sleep at night, and the same while you're at the office. Cross-country road trips are just about the only time the vast majority of people will ever need to charge at a location other than the origin or destination. Waiting for a supercharge doesn't add much time to the trip unless you normally tend to drive 10 hours straight without answering the call of nature. The superchargers are intended to be at locations and intervals where you would ordinarily stop anyway (to eat, use the facilities, stretch your legs, etc.). There are, of course, cases where a battery swap would be handy, but that's on the wrong side of the 80/20 problem.
- tjmc 13y agoBetter Place was trying to do that in partnership with Renault. Unfortunately they didn't make it.
- narrator 13y agoThe charging stations should be able to accommodate a lot more cars than a gas station. You don't have to have a lot of machinery to pump fluids around as electrons get around on their own. The physical size and expense of equipment per charging station should also be a lot smaller when compared with a gas station.
- netrus 13y agoBut keep in mind that I will occupy some space at the supercharger 4-5 times longer than with a regular gas station.
- viame 13y agoYesterday I was driving from Waterloo to Toronto and saw two Tesla S models within 30 min from each other. What a nice car! Does anyone know if there are charging stations along 401? Maybe that's why I can't find anything online ...
- jvm 13y agoSee map here: http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger http://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger They're located between major cities so you can make a road trip, not in them because the idea is when you're home you just plug them into your wall at night.