3 ms·

> "I don't get it, they seem to be ignoring their whole previous customer base; those who used Windows on their non-touch desktops and laptops." This is what f

> "I don't get it, they seem to be ignoring their whole previous customer base; those who used Windows on their non-touch desktops and laptops." This is what frustrates me also. I've had Windows 8 installed since (almost) day one on my desktop. I also have a Surface (that hasn't been touched in months, oops). MS was accused for years of advertising Windows' touch capabilities without actually putting any real thought into them. Windows 7 had some vaunted touch-compatibility changes which really just amounted to increasing the spacing between some buttons. This made them very hard to touch accurately, instead of impossible to touch accurately. Needless to say, people who were hoping for a touch-capable Windows were sorely disappointed. And now it looks like the pendulum has swung fully the other way. We have an OS that works great on a touch device, and basically doesn't work on a traditional mouse + keyboard device. No, seriously. I've met people who used Win8 regularly who didn't know that each app had a bottom bar - and how could they, there's zero discoverability around it, even though critical app functionality is often contained in that bar. (It's Windows+Z btw, that or a magical incantation of mouse movements). On a touch device it's a simple swipe up from the bottom. Beautiful. It still befuddles me every day that MS was willing to ship something that was so fundamentally unfriendly to mouse and keyboard users. How anyone at MS could look at the mouse gestures to trigger critical UI elements and call them acceptable... I just don't know. It seems to me that MS has bought fully into the doom and gloom re: the future of computing. The zeitgeist is that in the long run laptops and desktops will stop existing entirely and almost everyone will be using tablets instead. The sales numbers for both iOS and Android tablets support this, but it's hard to say where the equilibrium point will fall. It makes sense that, strategically, MS wants to transition Windows from a mouse-first to a touch-first UX, but this transition is awful.

BruceIV 13y ago
I believe that "magical incantation of mouse movements" is a right click. (Not claiming it's discoverable, just that it's not complicated.)
kvb 13y ago
Well, it seems like Microsoft is betting that touch is an inevitable feature of most computing devices in the near future (which seems like a good bet to me, even if it might be a year or so early). The desktop market is disappearing in favor of laptops and tablets, and touch really is a nice option on laptops even if it's not going to be the primary modality. But regardless, as someone who uses the keyboard a lot Windows 8 is slightly better than Windows 7 for me (e.g. Win+X for quick access to administrator tools).
- Shorel 13y ago
  I believe there's a huge difference between 'it's not growing' and 'it is disappearing', specially with a market with the overwhelming massive size of Windows. That's where the current MS problem lies.
  - kvb 13y ago
    But desktops really are disappearing, and this will only accelerate if BYOD initiatives succeed. Microsoft is in a tough spot - they could have made less drastic changes to Windows 8 to placate existing desktop users, but that's the path to obsolescence. Their execution hasn't been great, but I think that recognizing the shift away from desktops is the right thing for them to do if they want any relevance moving forward. Existing Windows 7 users don't need to "upgrade" if they are unhappy with the changes made by Windows 8.
bcbrown 13y ago
I was a test developer on the UI for Win8 for the first half of development, and tried a couple times to get the PMs to think about mouse/keyboard navigation in Metro, but never got anywhere. The bar was accessibility for blind people, not usability for people who preferred mouse/keyboard.
russellsprouts 13y ago
> No, seriously. I've met people who used Win8 regularly who didn't know that each app had a bottom bar - and how could they, there's zero discoverability around it, even though critical app functionality is often contained in that bar. (It's Windows+Z btw, that or a magical incantation of mouse movements). If by magical incantation of mouse movements, you mean a right click?

BruceIV 13y ago

I believe that "magical incantation of mouse movements" is a right click. (Not claiming it's discoverable, just that it's not complicated.)

kvb 13y ago

Well, it seems like Microsoft is betting that touch is an inevitable feature of most computing devices in the near future (which seems like a good bet to me, even if it might be a year or so early). The desktop market is disappearing in favor of laptops and tablets, and touch really is a nice option on laptops even if it's not going to be the primary modality. But regardless, as someone who uses the keyboard a lot Windows 8 is slightly better than Windows 7 for me (e.g. Win+X for quick access to administrator tools).

Shorel 13y ago
I believe there's a huge difference between 'it's not growing' and 'it is disappearing', specially with a market with the overwhelming massive size of Windows. That's where the current MS problem lies.
- kvb 13y ago
  But desktops really are disappearing, and this will only accelerate if BYOD initiatives succeed. Microsoft is in a tough spot - they could have made less drastic changes to Windows 8 to placate existing desktop users, but that's the path to obsolescence. Their execution hasn't been great, but I think that recognizing the shift away from desktops is the right thing for them to do if they want any relevance moving forward. Existing Windows 7 users don't need to "upgrade" if they are unhappy with the changes made by Windows 8.

bcbrown 13y ago

I was a test developer on the UI for Win8 for the first half of development, and tried a couple times to get the PMs to think about mouse/keyboard navigation in Metro, but never got anywhere. The bar was accessibility for blind people, not usability for people who preferred mouse/keyboard.

russellsprouts 13y ago

> No, seriously. I've met people who used Win8 regularly who didn't know that each app had a bottom bar - and how could they, there's zero discoverability around it, even though critical app functionality is often contained in that bar. (It's Windows+Z btw, that or a magical incantation of mouse movements). If by magical incantation of mouse movements, you mean a right click?